Why no responses by Firaxis?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Good lord. Nobody is asking them where they're putting the nails. We don't even know if they're EVEN CONSIDERING adding the much needed kitchen that they left out of the original.

Criminey.

Lib, you're starting to remind me of a parrot that keeps repeating the same phrase over and over and over again. If they get around to it, they get around to it. If not, it won't mean the end of the world, so why give yourself an ulcer over it?

[Quokka]

Ditto

[OneInTen]

You mean to tell me that you would allow a contractor to do whatever he pleased with the house you bought, never even so much as giving you an update now and then? And you would console yourself that it will likely be what you want?

Of course, a contractor working specifically for you and being paid thousands of dollars to do so is a perfectly good analogy to a company releasing a product to the general retail market of potentially millions of customers at ~$50US each.



I'm sure Libertarian has a better foreign language term for this, but for now I'm going to dub complaints that Firaxis aren't paying them the personal attention they believe they deserve as argument by "folie de grandeur".

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by OneInTen


Of course, a contractor working specifically for you and being paid thousands of dollars to do so is a perfectly good analogy to a company releasing a product to the general retail market of potentially millions of customers at ~$50US each.



I'm sure Libertarian has a better foreign language term for this, but for now I'm going to dub complaints that Firaxis aren't paying them the personal attention they believe they deserve as argument by "folie de grandeur".

Here we go, Willem and OneInTen again blah blah blah blah. Don't either of you have something constructive or even the least - meaningful to add the the discontentment of the many fans who have lost something with this excuse for a civ-sequal, rather than bantering off about "Oh not there fault, it's the publisher" or "Hey man, they just didn't have the resources, give them a break" or how about this one "They're the developers your the naive little game purchasing pleb - thats the way it is, pay your money and shut your mouth!" Is that the vary heart of all your inconsequencial and irrelevant random blurts of firaxi-lawyer ranting? Becuase here you two are spending so much time and effort trying to convince everyone to become utopian and just love the game. But you're both being completely irritating and somewhat ignorant, not to mention the most important factor blind to the reality of the matter here, which is people are pissed off - and they aren't making all this crap up just to create waves in the forums, these are REAL problems with the game. Now Willem and OneInTen you both obviously have some intelligence, why not use some compromise and (here's a hard one for you) respect for the people that have gripes with the product/company and allow them that, they've earned it! Move along or pay more attention to the problem(s) and listen to people rather than spending so much time trying to correct everyone with cheap sarcasm and degrating cut-downs.

Charles.

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
Firaxis should be showing more cards, give us some information on WHAT they are working on.

Charlie Farley,

Unfortunately for Firaxis in this case I disagree, if you are unable to manage your customers expectations - then don't give them any expectations!

Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
That would definately decrease the hostility towards them by a few notches

I think that for the majority this is true - but if you're happy with the situation you don't tend to post any complaints!


============= EDIT ===========================

Wow hold on there tiger --- talk about editing your post Charlie

[Th0mas]

Here we go, Willem and OneInTen again blah blah blah blah. Don't either of you have something constructive or even the least

ha ha ha ha ha

Please, if you must defend Libertarian be aware that he can haldly claim to have been making 'constructive critisims' over the last month or so!!!!

[Libertarian]

07-01-2002 07:30

No soup for you. Next!

[OneInTen]

I've got no problemn with people not liking the game, and no problem with people stating why they don't like the game.

There's only two things I've objected to in this or any other thread:
a) The presumption that because the poster of a comment doesn't like the game, it must be because the game is bad, not a matter of personal taste.
b) That Firaxis are a bad company for releasing this game (I clearly think they're not since many people enjoy it), or that they're managing cumstomer relations badly by not saying as much as some people like (How much personal attention do you want for your $50?)

I don't care if the posters on the board who like the game are the only ones who like the game, and the other 6 billion or so people on the planet would rather suck the farts out of dead pigeons than play it. Just so long as they don't state that the game sucks like it's a fact rather than an opinion (especially if they're not going to offer reasons or arguments for this view), or they state what a bad company Firaxis is. In either case I'm going to reply with why I think their points are unfounded.

I'm not trying to pretend everyone likes the game, or that it's perfect. I'm not trying to make people who don't like the game like it. I just want people to realise that the things they see as fatal flaws in the game are often the very same things that others love about the game (and vice versa). When this is the case, I don't understand how can anyone say Firaxis have done a horrible job in an objective sense.

As to this thread, the title of it says it all: "Why no response from Firaxis?" It's asking a question. I've attempted to answer that question with reasons as to why I think this is. I advise people not to ask questions if they feel that the answers they get may offend them.

Anyway, back to the main thread of conversation, I re-iterate: The reason why Firaxis isn't responding as much as some would like is because at the amount they're making from the game, minus their costs, it probably doesn't leave a lot left over to be paying people to talk on message boards. I'm not saying it's a good thing, or Firaxis are necessarily allocating their funds in the best places (how would I know, I'm not their accountant). I'm saying it's an economic decision made for econimic reasons, and if you don't like it you have two courses of action (both economic): either get together the funds to pay for a PR person at Firaxis and approach them about the role, or don't support their business by not purchasing future products - and with Sim Golf just released, you have a real chance to do just that.

[Libertarian]

Yes, we know the reasons why Firaxis is unresponsive.

The fact that they've posted a couple of times in the last couple of days belies the fact that they had ignored questions for weeks and months on end prior to that. It's almost like they came out to make a show, like a peacock, in order to spite those who complained because they still haven't answered any of the questions that have been asked by the vast majority of Apolytoners (such as the unanimously desired group movement). Instead, they've answered such things as whether the editor versions are synchronized with the game versions — a question asked once and answered immediately.

That sort of deliberate coyness is the hallmark of mischief.

You've touched on one reason: money. But there are others even more salient, such as their sheer incompetence with respect to PR. After all, it isn't very difficult to reason out how actually responding to customers can be financially beneficial. The main reason Firaxis doesn't respond is identical to the reason a little boy holds his breath until he turns blue.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Th0mas
Charlie Farley,

Unfortunately for Firaxis in this case I disagree, if you are unable to manage your customers expectations - then don't give them any expectations!



I think that for the majority this is true - but if you're happy with the situation you don't tend to post any complaints!


============= EDIT ===========================

Wow hold on there tiger --- talk about editing your post Charlie

Well in good taste I won't slaughter you on this obviously poor attempt to defend the views of the shameful. But I do disagree with great defiance and argue that "rather than create false expectations, don't give any expectations at all" is also like saying "Even though the dog is dead, we'll keep telling the little girl that we have no idea where it is!" Instead of being part of the problem, try being part of the solution. "Nurse we have another one over here!"

Charles.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by OneInTen
I've got no problemn with people not liking the game, and no problem with people stating why they don't like the game.

There's only two things I've objected to in this or any other thread:
a) The presumption that because the poster of a comment doesn't like the game, it must be because the game is bad, not a matter of personal taste.
b) That Firaxis are a bad company for releasing this game (I clearly think they're not since many people enjoy it), or that they're managing cumstomer relations badly by not saying as much as some people like (How much personal attention do you want for your $50?)

Well than I have a rebuttle to your objection, I bet your surprised

a) Has nothing to do with preference, it has been proven time and time again with valid and official game design flaws acompanied by facts from the many hours of playtesting the individuals (like myself) have put into the fray. Give me a secure email you don't mind endorsing and I'll send you a large list of problems with the game, and I'll even include a list of features that IO should have been included with the finished product, as a result of 5 years of feedback (which obviously turned out to be a waste!).

b)No one is suggesting the term "bad company" but it is obviously clear that the quality of the company in question has dropped since the existance of Mps. And PR is very important, and it especially comes in handy when the consumers are upset with their purchases. And regardless of how much the damn game is worth we still have a consumer right to complain and recieve respectful responses and feedback. If your suggesting that we don't deserve legitimate and complete answers to our questions simply because we haven't paid enough or that there are too many of us is rediculous. There are so many game companies that maintain quality assurance and customer support all over the world, it puts Firaxis' so called PR to shame. But I think your missing the bottom line here, this has absolutely nothing to do with "the amount of attention we can get for $50" as where it has everything to do with we collectively paid their bills for them by purchashing the product, and now we're not happy with the product - we deserve answers! And it has nothing to do with resources or convenience now, it has everything to do with respect and reputation. They're only people, but so are we - do we not deserve the same respect back?

Charles.

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Yes, we know the reasons why Firaxis is unresponsive.

The fact that they've posted a couple of times in the last couple of days belies the fact that they had ignored questions for weeks and months on end prior to that.

The fact that you've posted one "constructive" post in the last couple of weeks belies the fact that you have posted numerous one liner's for weeks and months post-and-prior to that.

Originally posted by Libertarian
No soup for you. Next!

......hand over the bowl, it's getting cold.

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by CharlesUFarley

Well in good taste I won't slaughter you on this obviously poor attempt to defend the views of the shameful. But I do disagree with great defiance and argue that "rather than create false expectations, don't give any expectations at all" is also like saying "Even though the dog is dead, we'll keep telling the little girl that we have no idea where it is!" Instead of being part of the problem, try being part of the solution. "Nurse we have another one over here!"

Charles.

Charles,

Your obviously poor analagy misses the point. As Firaxis are 'damned if they do, damned if they dont' communicate - better to be very vague (although I hate to say that) than provide information that may be incorrect due to future unforseen circumstances.

This is certainly an unproductive approach - but because of the behaviour of some posters - it is the least damaging option (for Firaxis).

I am certainly NOT part of the problem - I would want open and constructive dialogue between Firaxis and it's customer base.

However, if one party is not being constructive (and sadly in this case Apolyton forum users are being represented by a minority of very negative people) how can the other partake in 'inclusive' dialogue, in fact why would they bother - as it certainly appears not to be appreciated.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Th0mas


Charles,

Your obviously poor analagy misses the point. As Firaxis are 'damned if they do, damned if they dont' communicate - better to be very vague (although I hate to say that) than provide information that may be incorrect due to future unforseen circumstances.

This is certainly an unproductive approach - but because of the behaviour of some posters - it is the least damaging option (for Firaxis).

Okay, so rather than become informative and take a risk, it's better to become ignorant and deny any knowledge of the so called area 51. Was that analagy any better? Since when does the in-personal postings of a random user on some board have any berrings on the life and goings on of a company and its employees? Better question, when was the last time you were personally affected by an email from someone you didn't know? Fact is, you can make all the excuses you want but that doesn't change how 'damned' they are.

I am certainly NOT part of the problem - I would want open and constructive dialogue between Firaxis and it's customer base.

Then instead of arguing about it, try to become inquisative or helpful, offer some assistance rather than cut someone down. And I assure you, giving a response like "It's better to say nothing, rather than raise expectations" is only becoming part of the problem!

However, if one party is not being constructive (and sadly in this case Apolyton forum users are being represented by a minority of very negative people) how can the other partake in 'inclusive' dialogue, in fact why would they bother - as it certainly appears not to be appreciated.

First of all, the disapointment of this product is hardly a minority. I'm sure if you stick your neck out a little farther you'll see the smoke and flames. And second, Civ3 has been more than appreciated in the fony reviews and constant repeticious fanboys popping in and out of the threads with little or nothing to add to the problem(s) that exist. I'm not suggesting that people fan or foe shouldn't be able to discuss their opinions, but that they keep in mind this game DOES have problems that need to be addressed and to not get in the way of that. Simple.

Charles.

[OneInTen]

Yes, we know the reasons why Firaxis is unresponsive.

So why do so many continue to speculate about it?

The fact that they've posted a couple of times in the last couple of days belies the fact that they had ignored questions for weeks and months on end prior to that. It's almost like they came out to make a show, like a peacock, in order to spite those who complained because they still haven't answered any of the questions that have been asked by the vast majority of Apolytoners (such as the unanimously desired group movement).

Or perhaps they've been on Chrismas break and then been working hard on whatever it is they're working on, and only now had some small amount of spare time which they can devote to answering questions on some unofficial forum such as this?

As for group movement, it's not unanimous. I couldn't give a rats behind about it. It would add absolutely zero to my game experience, since I wouldn't make much, if any, use it with my style of play. In fact, it's likely to detract from it due to the risk of new bugs being introduced by adding features. I'm sure I'm not the only civ 3 player who doesn't have the need for group movement - and I wouldn't be surprised if Firaxis considers adding such a feature a rather delicate issue for the reasons I state of risk management vs reward.

Instead, they've answered such things as whether the editor versions are synchronized with the game versions — a question asked once and answered immediately.

In other words, they answer the questions they can give a conclusive answer to, and don't answer the questions which they can't. I'm sure you've had this discussion before over on civfanatics.

That sort of deliberate coyness is the hallmark of mischief.

Or rather, the hallmark of not wanting to give up any information they can't be sure about.

You've touched on one reason: money. But there are others even more salient, such as their sheer incompetence with respect to PR. After all, it isn't very difficult to reason out how actually responding to customers can be financially beneficial. The main reason Firaxis doesn't respond is identical to the reason a little boy holds his breath until he turns blue.

Given the express hostility towards Firaxis from yourself and others here, no, I'm not sure I see what Firaxis has to gain by responding to you at this point.

Even if that hostility didn't exist, apolyton and other such forums are isolated markets that it really doesn't make huge financial sense to sink too much time into, at least in the short term. And the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that Firaxis isn't in any position to focus on any intangible long term benefits of goodwill - they're a small company in an unstable industry during an economic downturn. Their priorities have to be on their immediate bottom line to survive and prosper!