Dan Magaha explains Firaxis position on late-game tedium

[Libertarian]

In the online Christmas chat with Jeff Morris, Dan was a special guest. Naturally, I asked about the two issues of group movement and proximate unit activation sequencing.

After a bit of wrangling and rhetorical jockying, as well as a bit of trolling from a particular participant, the answer finally came.

Firaxis IS AWARE that late-game tedium, caused mainly by the two factors cited here, IS A PROBLEM. They simply do not know, at this point, whether they can do anything about it or not.

A big thanks to Dan for answering the question.

(edited to correct spelling)

[bahoo]

Re: Dan Magaha explains Firaxis position on late-game tedium

Originally posted by Libertarian They simply do not know, at this point, whether they can do anything about it or not.

I find that hard to believe.

More likely, it does not financially behoove them to do so.

[Libertarian]

I'm sure that's part of the "can", addressing both functional and financial aspects.

What had me so miffed was what I perceived as a general "what problem?" attitude. It was like George Bush, Sr being surprised by his recession. Now that they've admitted that the players aren't crazy or stupid, I feel much mollified.

[Special_Olympic]

What about the early and mid game tedium?

[ACooper]

Threads like these are the definition of tedium.

[Libertarian]

Why is that, ****gy?

(edit: Good lord, a bit of censor anal retention?)

[Evil_Eric_4]

A big thanks to Dan for answering the question.

thbhbhbhbhbhbhbhbh

[FrantzX]

"We are aware of these feature requests, and when we have something concrete to say about them, we will."

They already said this.

[El hidalgo]

Re: Re: Dan Magaha explains Firaxis position on late-game tedium

Originally posted by bahoo


I find that hard to believe.

More likely, it does not financially behoove them to do so.

Well, you can't really blame them for that. I know the main reason I go to work is because of the financial benefits.

What I find hard to believe is that nobody who worked on the game seemed to have brought up, for example, that there's nothing more tedious than moving stacks of units around one by one. If you've ever played any of the civ games, you should know this. Didn't anyone at Firaxis ever get to the end part of the game and say to themselves "Damn this is tedious"? And then take the next logical step and say "if I could move all these units as a stack it would be a lot less tedious." That's what I don't understand.

Damn, if only everyone on Apolyton could get together and make a game. It would be amazing and it would sell like hotcakes.

[Whoha]

no

there would be strife and conflict over everything if this forum made a game.

[Travathian]

El hidalgo said it perfectly. Either QA didn't communicate gameplay issues and was only there for bugs or the makers of the game spent entirely too much time letting the game play itself in debug mode and not playing it themselves.

[Adam Wallock]

Libertarian-

I believe that I am the particular trolling participant that you have made reference to. (APW)

I mean you no hostility but seriously....

I have read your posts, asking the SAME QUESTIONS at least ten different places. I also have seen several individual responses from Firaxis which were perfectly understandable. In fact AFAICT you are one of the few who seems mystified by their "cryptic" responses.

They read the forums. They know what people like and don't. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!

They will get things done faster if people like you would stop harping on them. I find your relentlessness on this subject more childish than a good deal of the rant type postings on 'Poly.

You are clearly a grown man. Do us a favor and behave like one.

I sincerely do not mean offense by this post. But I understood Firaxis position on these subjects from their first response. I fail to understand how a reasonably intelligent and (theoretically) politically sophisticated person could miss the message.

Now that you have their response will you simply wait quietly?

I doubt it.

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Why is that, ****gy?

(edit: Good lord, a bit of censor anal retention?)

I wouldn't have expected that one.

[scientist]

Firaxis' Apathy

Wallock:

I have been watching these boards as Libertarian has turned from an articulate apologist for Firaxis to a dejected curmudgeon.

Civ III is a good game with many shortcomings, and many of these shortcomings only become evident after playing the game for a while. Lack of stacked movement is one of these. To tell you the truth, I got bored with the end games in Civ III myself but couldn't put a finger on why it was until the issue was brought up on these boards. Firaxis is pretty lucky to get such dedicated unpaid play testers.

Unfortunately, whenever anyone ever tries to pin them down on anything than the most obfuscatory equivocation, they become petulant.

Petulance breeds petulance. My anger came over the "designers' notes" rip-off with the LE. Libertarian's last straw was the stacked movement issue.

Yes, Lib's posts on the matter have become repetitive, but that is only because Firaxis' replies are continually dismissive and uninformative.

It's all the more the pity because I think that they are alienating one of the more dynamic parts of the Civ community.

I have pretty muched stopped harping on Firaxis because it is tiresome to have a one-sided conversation.

P.S. I'm speaking in a general sense, because I can't find the chat transcript.

P.P.S. My apolgies, Libertarian, for taking the liberty of characterizing you. I know you are a living person who's motivations and reasoning are much more complex than a fictional characters, but we all may seem to play a part in a play even if we don't mean to. For instant, I don't think that Dan Magaha is really the unthinking company shill that he so often comes across as, especially as I remember his posts from happier days.

[Adam Wallock]

Re: Firaxis' Apathy

Originally posted by scientist
Civ III is a good game with many shortcomings, and many of these shortcomings only become evident after playing the game for a while. Lack of stacked movement is one of these. To tell you the truth, I got bored with the end games in Civ III myself but couldn't put a finger on why it was until the issue was brought up on these boards. Firaxis is pretty lucky to get such dedicated unpaid play testers.

I have played many hours of game time and although I admit that stacked movement would be nice, IMO it is hardly a game breaker. The notion that we, the retail customers are merely beta-testers is preposterous. I have gotten my $50 worth and clearly so have many others.

Unfortunately, whenever anyone ever tries to pin them down on anything than the most obfuscatory equivocation, they become petulant.

Petulance breeds petulance. My anger came over the "designers' notes" rip-off with the LE. Libertarian's last straw was the stacked movement issue.

Yes, Lib's posts on the matter have become repetitive, but that is only because Firaxis' replies are continually dismissive and uninformative.

Firaxis does not owe us anything. It's great that they are continuing to put work into the game and obviously if they want to sell games in the future its in their best interest to support this one. I agree that the LE was a sham, blame Infogrames it was clearly their decision. Firaxis has NO OBLIGATION to provide verbose progress reports on every thought and action that they are taking to improve their product. It is this very sense of entitlement that is so childish. As others here have said, It sure is too bad that this game can't be exactly the way that you would want it. Amazing that so many others are satisfied. Hmm...

It's all the more the pity because I think that they are alienating one of the more dynamic parts of the Civ community.

Come now. We alienate ourselves. Firaxis is hardly responsible for the egocentric attitudes of their customers.

I have pretty muched stopped harping on Firaxis because it is tiresome to have a one-sided conversation.

See above.

For instant, I don't think that Dan Magaha is really the unthinking company shill that he so often comes across as, especially as I remember his posts from happier days.

If this minor PR/Customer Service issue is making your days unhappy, you should have a serious look at your priorities. This is the whole problem. People are taking this game way too seriously and its clogging up an otherwise interesting and productive forum.

Sorry, but I just don't buy it.