Real men can handle getting their tanked smashed by a warrior

[Spatzimaus]

For every time you lose a Tank to a Pikeman and get all upset, there was probably also a time when your Spearman defended his city from a bunch of Knights (done that). If you're going to reload the game to avoid one, shouldn't you do the same to avoid the other? After all, you SHOULD have lost that city...

If you don't like upsets, go into the editor, and increase hit points in the rules. Instead of 2/3/4/5, you could go 3/4/5/6, or 2/4/6/8, or whatever you want. It'll drastically reduce the chance of upsets.

[KrazyHorse]

To both dissident and Teeba.

Finally a worthwhile thread.

[Dis]

yes I have reloaded games in the past. Those were my civ2 ways. Once I realized it was too much of a pain to reload games in civ3 I stopped reloading. I only posted that when I was testing the reloading. It proved to be effective in its purpose.

I never reload games in civ3 anymore. I just let my calvary die- usually they just retreat.

[gachnar]

My Story

Okay.

I'm fighting the oh-so-nasty Babylonians with my shiny new tanks. I just got the tech and so I dont really have many of them, but I just want them to help out the main body of troops fighting already (mostly Cav/Riflemen).

They (3 tanks) get down just in time to intercept a counterattack from the Babylonians: a pikeman and 2 swordsman. Hardly a match for my invincible tanks! (insert evil laughter here). However, they are on a hill, and there is a huge mountain range they are only 2 squares from.

I have to stop them before they hit the mountains where my tanks are less than useful. So. I take two of the tanks and have them attack, the third moves to reinforce a heavily attacked city.

The first tank attacks. And loses. Odd. But, he was on a hill. At least he was mortally wounded. He wont win a second round. With some spite and the fearsome battle cry of "Remember that Tank-Unit-Thingy-That-Used-To-Be-With-Us!!!" the second unit charges the hill. This time the swordsman, probably with some tactical help from their pikeman friends, viciously slaughter the tanks.

The last tank unit, hearing of the ill news, raced back the next turn. The pikeman, somewhat healed and now promoted to Elite-Tank-Killer status (Elites have 7 hp in my mod, so he had 4). The last unit of Tank Model 1.0 attacked the wounded pikemen as they bravely stood their ground.

And then retreated with a single hitpoint. The pikemen celebrated. But above all of the cheers and yelling, was a rapid "whump, whump, whump" sound coming from the very heavens.

It was me. Tapping on the screen:

"Nooooo!!! Get in the tanks."

Epilogue: The tank was finished off by 3 swordsmen who happened across it on its way to any safe haven. It did win 2 battles before the entire company was killed. Apparently both battles were won by pushing the tanks over the enemy.

I never did figure out how the Pikemen and their protege Swordsmen did it. I might have if any units had made it back alive to say "Potatoes... ... it had something... ...to do with potatoes". I'm sure it would have been a revolutionary tank-killing technology.

But the world was denied also. Over 13 units including 7 infantry units and 4 artillery units tracked them down in the mountains and killed them all. All the artillery returned, but only 1 infantry and 1 Rifleman unit remained.

Tank Version 1.1 (now with hatches to allow soldiers inside the Tank) was instrumental in ripping Babylon into 3 parts and then destroying them utterly.

Had to. The world simply wasn't prepared for Anti-Tank-Pikeman.

[star mouse]

"Knight takes knight."

"Okaaay ... how about this? Queen to Q8 check."

"What sort of a dumb move is that? You'll lose your queen for no material return!"

"Have you never seen a queen sacrifice before? It's mate in three. You have to take my queen with your king, because it's the only way to escape check. Then I move my bishop here, check. You have to move your king to here because it's double check from the bishop and this rook. Then I move my bishop to here, and it's mate."

"Very nice. Great game, how about another?"

A sudden commotion from outside the tent dispelled all thoughts of another game from the officers' minds. A horseman, still in his riding gear and panting heavily, burst into the tent.

"Sirs! Urgent message!"

"Yes, Corporal?"

"Sir! The enemy has been sighted! There is a division of Panzer tanks heading this way!"

"How long before they arrive here?"

"We're not sure Sir. Four, maybe five days' travel."

He dismissed the Corporal, and the expression on the Colonel's face became grim. For years, he had been asked to lead armies with troops that were so outdated that he regularly saw privates carrying spears. One day he hoped to be recalled home to have his troops upgraded with the latest in Infantry gear, but whenever he asked, he was always told that no money was available because the extended war had depleted the Treasury.

Now it was do or die - his two divisions of spearmen had to face the most modern equipment the German army had in its possession. Fortunately, Colonel Sander's years of experience had taught him more than a few tricks that allowed him to get the most out of the men under his command. His inspired leadership had turned his men into battle-hardened Elite forces. If he was to lose his army, they weren't going without a fight.

The mountain road near which his troops were camped and which they were guarding was of great tactical importance. It was the only road over the rugged mountains of the Cleopatra Ranges, so any troops that wanted to cross the mountains quickly had to pass this way.

And, the Colonel reflected, mountain roads had a habit of providing nasty surprises for the unwary, especially if his men prepared the surprises....

[kailhun]

Oh great. So not only do I lose a tank, I'm not a real man either.
...
That's quite a relief actually.

Robert

[Akka]

Originally posted by rah
But back to reality, I have no problem with it at all. This is not CIVII where 5 tanks could conquer an entire civ in a couple of turns. If your stratagy can totally unravel because you lose a tank, then it wasn't much of a stratagy. Just like in real life, it's always best to attack with OVERWHELMING force.

It's perhaps just my own misconception of the world, but I consider that sending armored divisions against spearmen or pikemen is already attacking with overwhelming forces...

[Agni]

Yes it can happen.

Remember Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? Indy stuffs a stone in the tank turret and lo and behold the tank is rendered useless. Filled with smoke. Soldirs come out of the tank. Now anyone with a sword or spear should be able to take them

I remember news from one of the wars where soldirs used to lie down in the path of tanks (patton tanks for the record) and blow themselves up when tank ran over them. The underbelly of patton tanks was not armored like the outside. This used to render the tanks useless.

[Childe Roland]

I just can't accept that a tank or infantry can lose to pikeman or hoplites or whatever! Modern units have firepower! Spearmen and pikemen don't! A tank fires from distance, and should wipe out any pikeman without a scratch! A pikeman being even in a mountain could not do anything against a tank or infantry! THIS is reality!
Zealot


Hmmm, THIS is reality? To think, all this time I thought we were discussing a game.

[Blackadder667]

Woooow you guys are probably smarter than the pentagon

[redstar1]

If we are going to continually have this realism argument why don't we try and agree some principles.

Firstly, I suggest that a warrior in the Industrial/Modern age is no longer a man with a club. Let imagine he has progressed to become say a group of civilians/or reserves armed with light weapons and trained in guerilla warfare.

Maybe a spearman can now be a small group of anti-tank soldiers armed with shoulder-holstered bazookas. (such as the German front line defenses in the cold war).

We don't have to be constricted by the images on our screens. Does it not seem silly to you that in the age of Steel and Explosives you still have a unit running around in deerskin carring a club? Lets be sensible about this. Yes, the idea of a man with a club, or indeed a spear, defeating a tank is outrageous so why not inject some imagination and it no longer seems silly. It seems like a modern-day non-frontline unit doing its job and succeeding.

As for Galleys defeating destroyers.... imagine a galley is now a squadron of fast attack craft or coastal patrol vessels with light weapons.

It's easy if you try.....

Dave

[Wrong_shui]

Real men dont dance

[Zealot]

Originally posted by rah
But back to reality, I have no problem with it at all. This is not CIVII where 5 tanks could conquer an entire civ in a couple of turns. If your stratagy can totally unravel because you lose a tank, then it wasn't much of a stratagy. Just like in real life, it's always best to attack with OVERWHELMING force.

I just can't accept that a tank or infantry can lose to pikeman or hoplites or whatever! Modern units have firepower! Spearmen and pikemen don't! A tank fires from distance, and should wipe out any pikeman without a scratch! A pikeman being even in a mountain could not do anything against a tank or infantry! THIS is reality!

I wonder how would the taliban defend themselves with pikes from the Northern Alliance or the US Marines...

[Whoha]

what about losing them to unarmed civilians?

reversion is the only true test of manhood,warriors beating tanks are every day occurences, any lamer can deal with that :P

[Redstar]

hey you name stealer

I have relatives in Ireland. They prolly know you cause the land is so small.

Its a small world afterall....

nope, i have nothing to add to this thread except...