Jeffrey Morris: Dan Magaha said to ask you these two questions

[ACooper]

When all this discussion of stack movement started I was in favor of it. Because of all the whining and crying and nastiness, I don't care if I ever see it. Sometimes people get sick of it.



I aggree with what gachnar say whole heartedly.
I think the 9 year old and 13 yr old analogy works well (as I am a parent of both)

[gachnar]

Originally posted by Libertarian
I was told by a Firaxis employee to ask Jeff. I asked Jeff.

In the real world: You were told that only Jeff would know the answer. Not that he would tell you, since you were also told that Firaxis wasn't going to share speculation about future features. You were also told that they had already heard requests for stacked movement.

He said that he would answer whenever he felt like it.

In the real world: He said he would give you information when they had reliable information. Apparently he doesn't have reliable information about when or if it will be implemented. He answered your question. And he showed a surprising amount of tact compared to the post you asked the questions in.

I said that I would extend him the same treatment in recommending the game to my friends.

In the real world: You tried to threaten him by saying you'd tell your friends that they shouldn't buy Civ3 because some people have problems with it. Seems more like you threatened your friends. If they would enjoy the game, why not tell them about it? I enjoy the game even without stacked movement or an optimized algorithm to select next available units. Hell, I even enjoy my spearmen putting down 4 knights.

If I had treated my customers that way, I wouldn't still have a business. [...shrug...] Maybe it's a Southern thing. We don't think courtesy is a waste of time.

In the real world: Apparently you do. You have shown very little in that top post there. Apparently, you are supposed to insult them, they are supposed to show courtesy. Well, in the Mid-Atlantic we like to do that whole "mutual respect between client and customers" thing. Try it.

What Jeff did exactly was to waste time. His. Mine. And yours. His rude brush-off was uncalled for.

In the real world: Yes. He wasted his time. He's a developer. He's not paid to answer your questions. He does this because he actually cares, but he has to balance his job against your desire for unofficial information. His "rude brush-off" was probably a direct result of your arrogant and somewhat insulting tone.

It went from "it's not my job" to "bug off". Yin is right. They don't know PR from BS.

In the real world: Well. This one one of the few statements thats somewhat true. I would say they are "mediocre" at PR. Really, what are they thinking. They keep on acting like developers. Why cant we have a game created by marketroids? Then we would have some good PR, and I bet you would have got that perfect response.

{edit: Eeek. Spelling}

[Libertarian]

Priorities are important if you're running a business.

A business's first priority ought to be to its shareholders.

now you're acting like a whiner Lib. What he really said was that he would answer when he would be able to give you a concrete answer

We'll see.

[Golgo13]

I have to agree with Lib on stacked movement. I'm not a programmer by trade, but I do know from playing CTP2 that stacked movement can be done. I also know that no stacked movement in Civ3 is a pain in the posterior and it should have been included in the original release not a patch. Oz you really need to shut up. I've read many of your posts on this thread and others. All you do is blast others for speaking their mind. I think it's obvious that many of the criticisms of Civ3 are logical and reasonable. What do you have to offer to these forums besides hot air?

[Libertarian]

When all this discussion of stack movement started I was in favor of it. Because of all the whining and crying and nastiness, I don't care if I ever see it.

Amazing. Simply amazing. What a weird basis upon which to judge a feature.

[Dida]

Originally posted by Steve Clark
Lib, I am curious, what answer would have been ideal for you? Would you prefered Jeff to say that the problem has been fixed in the code and it will be released in a minor patch on Friday? How do you know it could be this simple?

I have programmed indexing "units" on a grid and it is difficult. When the "unit" is created, it is assigned an ID pointer. Part of the information about that unit is it coordinate location, which obviously changes when it is in a different tile...but the ID may not have changed. One can have it constantly update the ID so that all units in the same coordinate would be sequential...but the cost would significant increase loop cycles each time a unit moves (by you, by the AI, by retreating or other movements). Instead of attacking quickly most of the time with one unit and then the next, you would conceptually have a noticeable pause between each and every action. Would you prefer that instead?

stop bragging about your little worthless programming experience now. How difficult it is to fix the game does not matter to the consumer. The customer simply wants a better product. And, as a programmer and gamer, I think Libertarian's got the point here. This game is way too tedious toward the end, I will stop playing it if it is not fixed. Well, my friends already sopped anyways.

[Steve Clark]

Let me say something different here. The point is not whether this one fix should or shouldn't be done but it is in the manner how it should be requested. All that needed to be done was add it to the bug list thread, explaining exactly what the issue is in a clear, concise manner. To try to elevate this as more important than what others have said have rubbed some folks the wrong way. It is on Firaxis list (as with all of the other ones) to look into and to see if it is feasible, balancing that with other proposed fixes. Personally, I can see where this would be more convenient but many of us was able to play Nemo's SF and RF without stacked movement (and enjoy it!).

[Capt Dizle]

If Firaxis considers these two issues "feature requests" then that exposes a basic problem.

These two problems, lack of stacked movement and non-sequential unit activation, are very serious problems. Given the high number of units that Civ3 is designed to produce, these problems are almost show stoppers.

I am sure that upwards of 85% of players have grown tired of this micromanagement tedium and either abandoned games to start a new one or quit playing Civ3 altogether.

[HawaiiFive-O]

85% of all statistics are made up on the fly.

[XPav]

Originally posted by HawaiiFive-O
85% of all statistics are made up on the fly.

Do you have a source on that?

[Capt Dizle]

I'm busted.

[Dida]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
If Firaxis considers these two issues "feature requests" then that exposes a basic problem.

These two problems, lack of stacked movement and non-sequential unit activation, are very serious problems. Given the high number of units that Civ3 is designed to produce, these problems are almost show stoppers.

I am sure that upwards of 85% of players have grown tired of this micromanagement tedium and either abandoned games to start a new one or quit playing Civ3 altogether.

this is very true. I'm totally sick of having to move my 200 tanks every turn. And in the middle of an intense battle, the screen would somehow jumps half way across the globe. And I have to make my way back to the battle scene. considering you have to activate hundreds of units every turn, this is a very very serious problem.
The best feature in 1.16vf patch is that it turns off 'show enemy move', now, let me turn off 'auto cycle unit', I will activate them manually if Civ3 cannot do it right. This is a simple request, i don't see why it cannot be done.
As far as stacking is concern, it is not that bad to program in deed. CTP1 and 2 has shown that it can be done. And, stacking is already in Civ3, tha Army is an example of that.

[HawaiiFive-O]

Of course not! It was a joke, based on jimmytrick's assertion.

The basis of the joke, of course, is that a made up statistic is used to prove the point about made up statistics.

Here's another one for you.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics...

[gachnar]

Originally posted by HawaiiFive-O
85% of all statistics are made up on the fly.

My sources say the number is closer to 92%.

However, only 7% of them are correct.

[HawaiiFive-O]

But on topic, I do agree with the content of Libertarian's request, if not the manner of delivery.

Yes, the unit activation thing is very annoying and fixing it would be most welcome.

Yes, stacked movement would be nice.

Do I, in my personal opinion, feel these are game-killers? Nope. Does it make me a bad person? Well, maybe in the minds of some posters on this board, but I sleep very well at night.

Does it make people who feel these ARE game-killers bad people? Of course not.

To each his own.

And I guarantee, at least 85% of the people that read this post will agree.