Confused about people quiting Civ3

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Canaris
Just for kicks, I made a custom map giving my self about 25 goodie huts around my starting point. I finished the ancient age in oh 7 or 8 turns. But somehow MIRACULOUSLY the ****ty indians, egyptians and whatever with their SINGLE city managed to keep up with me in technology all the way to the modern ages.

Canaris - you just have to explain that example of yours a little better. You dont make any logical sense to me.

How is it possible to "finish the ancient age in o 7 or 8 turns"? How is it possible that the Indians/egyptians never produced any settlers (only ONE city each - their capitols, obviously) - all the way into modern age?

[ACooper]

In saying "What Arrogance " your obviously talking about yourself. Right?

[eRAZOR]

Originally posted by ****gyRA
In saying "What Arrogance " your obviously talking about yourself. Right?

Hello? *knock* *knock* Have you actually read his post? Yes?

[Ralf]

Originally posted by eRAZOR
Hello? *knock* *knock* Have you actually read his post? Yes?

I have read his reply, eRAZOR, but all I can see is one pretty weird impossible-to-grasp setup-example, that doesnt seems to relate to the excisting game-mechanics & rules at all. From that he extract all kinds of "Facts", that I for one neither agree with; nor have experienced, or even suspected during the 4-5 weeks I repeatedly have played this game.

[Blaupanzer]

Re: What arrogance!

Originally posted by Canaris
Fact: The AI does not need to research technology. Can I change that in my editor?

No evidence of this. Calling it a fact doesn't make it one.

Originally posted by Canaris
Fact: The AI players trade tech's among them freely and instantly even if they have no plausible way of meeting each other.

Have not seen this, do not believe it to be so. Besides, according to your first point, the AIs don't have to do research, so what difference does t make if they trade techs.

Originally posted by Canaris
Fact: AI Wonders of the worlds ARE NOT BUILT. They are just randomly created at the whim of god knows whatever algorithm. I started building Leonardo's in a size 12 city with a base production of 23 shields/turn. About 10 turns later the Indians started building it too in a ridiculously inferior city with not even half the shield production of mine. I kept watching it with my embassy, and it was no where near done when I got the message they had completed it. Ironicaly, ONE FRIGGING TURN before mine was done.

1) Was the Wonder built in the city you were "watching from your embassy." (Seeing how expensive it would be to pay espionage costs on a turn-by-turn basis, you wasted a lot of gold.) The AI does sometimes build wonders in more than one city, or switch between them at the last second, just as you can. (For example, start building FP in one city, then start Leonardo's in another. At last second switch Leonardo's to another wonder and finish Leonardo's in the city building the FP with just enough shields.) You can do it, so can they.

Originally posted by Canaris
Fact: CORRUPTION IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY INSANE. There, I said it, yes you can alter THIS in the editor but even so it's too high. Am I really the only one that feels it's retarded that the it takes at least 100 turns to finish a hidden palace only 5 cities away from your capital. COME ON.

What does "5 cities away" mean? At 20 squares, the player still has enough potential production capacity to finish much sooner than "100" turns.

Originally posted by Canaris
Fact: conquest is utterly pointless in the late game. It takes massive troop allocation to quell the rioting, half the inhabitants will die because after I invade they suddenly forget the way to the fields and mines and won't remember until I finish a temple. Which will take eons to build as it's far from my capital. COME ON.

Buy the temple, or if commie, reduce the populace to get it. Look around you, IRL holding conquered cities requires serious Governmental resources and garrisons.

Originally posted by Canaris
Feel free to pick apart my post by pointing at my excessive use of caps and eventual typos/mispellings.
Indiana

It isn't your typing, it's your reasoning that makes for difficulties. The game isn't easy, it requires time to master. That's why it has such a high replay value.

[EnochF]

I want to add some of the features from Civ II that were (for no apparent reason I can see) removed from Civ III. Show me how, using the editor, to add a Superhighways improvement that adds one trade for every road square in a city radius. Show me how, using the editor, to add a wonder with the effect of the old Adam Smith's, that pays for every city improvement costing 1 gold. Show me how, using the editor, to add Farmland tile improvements and Supermarkets. Show me how, using the editor, to give a free tech advance to the first civ that discovers Philosophy. Show me how, using the editor, to make the Electronics advance double the entertainment value of Colosseums. Show me how, using the editor, to put randomly generated barbarians in later stages of the game, appearing as knights or riflemen. Show me how, using the editor, to have Partisans emerge from conquered cities after the discovery of Guerrilla Warfare. In fact, show me how, using the editor, to add Guerrilla Warfare without eliminating another tech advance to do it. Show me how to add a tech icon for it that actually appears in the game without screwing up the tech icons for every other advance.

For that matter, show me how, using the editor, to add a Stock Exchange improvement. It's relatively easy to change something else into a stock exchange. Simply give it a +50% gold bonus that requires a bank. But how do you add it? And how do you program a graphic for it that appears in the game itself?

Show me how, using the editor, to add automobiles to gameplay, so it doesn't take your construction workers thirty years to get to the other side of the island and build your tourist section... oh wait, that's Tropico again... I've been playing that game a lot lately.

[Immortal Wombat]

This thread sucks

[Canaris]

No evidence of this. Calling it a fact doesn't make it one.

No, I have no other evidence than my experience. I suggest you conduct the same experiment I mentioned. Make a cheesy map with a plethora of goodie huts to get a huge tech advantage. I bet you anything the AI's will be at worst, 2 techs behind you.

Have not seen this, do not believe it to be so. Besides, according to your first point, the AIs don't have to do research, so what difference does t make if they trade techs.

This makes a huge difference when you're trading technology with the AI. If I am the first to get nuclear power. I damn well want to be able to sell it to all the AI's first. But somehow STRANGELY they manage to procure it during or just before my negotiations with other AI's

Was the Wonder built in the city you were "watching from your embassy." (Seeing how expensive it would be to pay espionage costs on a turn-by-turn basis, you wasted a lot of gold.) The AI does sometimes build wonders in more than one city, or switch between them at the last second, just as you can. (For example, start building FP in one city, then start Leonardo's in another. At last second switch Leonardo's to another wonder and finish Leonardo's in the city building the FP with just enough shields.) You can do it, so can they.

I checked every other turn, it's progress was natural compared to the shield production of that city. There was no way it could have been completed in time. And no, it was built in that town, not switched in the last minute to a more advanced one. Again, I urge you to monitor the AI's building habits. That's about the only thing espionage is good for, but that's a rant in it's own.

5 Cities, right that could have been worded better. 5 cities is 5 x the distance between optimaly placed cities. IE 4 squares on the same row. So 20 squares away. Making for a matrix of a 5 x 5 empire (25 cities). Which seems to be to the bare minimum if you want to research all technologies in reasonable time. More often I have 50 cities, and building a second palace is a huge pain in the ass. I think the shield requirements for it should be halfed and corruption lowered by 20% overall.

Buy the temple, or if commie, reduce the populace to get it. Look around you, IRL holding conquered cities requires serious Governmental resources and garrisons.

Omg, the realism excuse is such a copout. But if you want to go that way sure. During WW2 my country denmark was invaded by germany. It took them about 22 hours to seize the entire country and they held it with a minimum ammount of forces for the duration of the war. We didn't forget how to feed our selves. So half the population died of starvation.
Actualy I can't think of any historic episode that even remotely looks like the absurd situation in Civilization 3. Way too often, a recently conqured city defects with an insane ammount of units in it. What happends to my army, please do tell

And I apologize for my somewhat undocumented ranting above.
I believe my examples are easy to reproduce tho and for the record I play on Regent.

And also if you want more things that I can't change with my editor, how about having to watch all your 50 cities go in to revolt/WLTKD ONE BY ONE. Or watching your workers move, or the AI move the same 15 knights back and forth near your borders. Late game turns takes several minutes for me and it just makes me want to quit.

God I loved the other games in the series, but Civ 3 has been such a disapointment. Do you remember the old preferences menu of Civ2 or just alpha centauri? You could chose exactly what you wanted to monitor and what you wanted to ignore. All that was stripped out of Civ3. This is like Civilization light and it saddens me.

And still, I could forgive them all the shortcomings of Civ3 if only it had multiplayer. Playing with someone else would make it so much more interesting.

Indiana