Confused about people quiting Civ3

[Brakner]

Libertarian i didnt even notice those feature were missing nor do i care if they put them in or not. So what it looks like is features that YOU wanted and not BUGS

[felder]

Originally posted by Brakner
Libertarian i didnt even notice those feature were missing nor do i care if they put them in or not. So what it looks like is features that YOU wanted and not BUGS

Oh man....this is way too easy. I'd respond to this drivel, but I'd hate to ruin Libertarian's satisfaction. Man oh man oh man...

[rah]

Ralf,
1. Some people don't include saved games when they brag. So you may not know what rules set was used. But I love your idea of it listing the exceptions.

2. In MP, I'm not as concerned with different rules (since all are playing the same) AS LONG AS IT"S COMMUNICATED with all the players. We had a big discussion when one host was tweaking the happiness formulae and didn't bother to tell the other players playing. That's cheating, plain and simple.

The only other problem with MP is, we spent almost 6 months agreeing to settings and non-allowed/allowed cheats that evolved into "RAH" rules. (no comment, they named it after me just to annoy me, and it worked ) There are about 30 players that have used them and will know what you're talking about. It makes it much easier to start a game quickly. It's hard enough getting people to show up on time, then have to spend an hour argueing the settings and rules.

The more options they give us, the harder I see it be to get people to agree. (not sure if good or bad yet since eventually some concensus will occur.)

RAH

[Ralf]

Originally posted by rah
We had a big discussion when one host was tweaking the happiness formulae and didn't bother to tell the other players playing. That's cheating, plain and simple.

I agree to that. But, what can one do about those hopeless maggots?

[Brakner]

Felder: It wasnt really directed at Libertarian but at the people i read all over this forum that have listed many many things exactly like his and called them bugs or things the game should do. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion and i'm not saying he or they are are wrong its just alot of people dont look at the good things ever. If something has 90 out of 100 good things going for it all they can see is the 10 bad things. Sorry if it seemed like a flame but reading all this negative stuff rubs off on you.

[rah]

Originally posted by Ralf


I agree to that. But, what can one do about those hopeless maggots?

Identify and ostracize.

But my point was, There will probably be quite a few options for game setups to discuss. If you include mods, the number of combinations will be so high that agreement will be almost impossible.

[Libertarian]

Originally posted by Brakner
Libertarian i didnt even notice those feature were missing nor do i care if they put them in or not. So what it looks like is features that YOU wanted and not BUGS

Didn't say they were bugs.

They are items that hinder gameplay. And they are items that cannot be fixed with the editor, contrary to the doltish claims that the editor is a panacea.

[Deornwulf]

Good Business Sense

Whatever happened to the age old maxim "The Customer is always right?" Everytime any of you argue with someone's negative appraisal of the game, you are ignoring the fact that since that individual is the consumer, the individual has the right to complain if he or she feels the goods purchased are faulty. Just because the product is a computer game does not exempt it from the principles of quality control. Good sales practices are based on individual relationships with each and every customer, not just the satisfied ones. Businesses that fail to recognize their critics are often the ones that go out of business.

Deornwulf - The English Teacher (who was a business major)

[Skanky Burns]

One thing about trying to please the customer: Each customer has a certain way they want the game to behave like, many with conflicting views. By trying to please everyone, Firaxis would please no-one. The best they can do is try to please the most people - not the loudest.

However, on certain issues that have unanimous support from the community (stack movement being a good example), Firaxis should (and does) take the customers feed-back into account.

[Libertarian]

Huh?

One —1! — Firaxis employee has begrudgingly acknowledged the deluge of requests for group movement. And within that acknowledgment was a tacit "it's not my job, ask Jeff" quip. This you call taking our feedback into account?

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Huh?

One —1! — Firaxis employee has begrudgingly acknowledged the deluge of requests for group movement. And within that acknowledgment was a tacit "it's not my job, ask Jeff" quip. This you call taking our feedback into account?

sheesh Lib

With your attitude I'm surprised any Firaxis guys respond

oh and BTW - I believe Jeff has replied to one of the Stacking threads and stated that they are aware of the issue and will get back when they have more confirmed information (or something like that) WHICH IS A TOTALLY REASONABLE RESPONSE.

[Geez]

I think that folks are missing the point all of us "whiners" are trying to get across. Most, if not all of us LOVED Civ2. I think it is silly to say that we were expecting the same game in Civ3. However, I am pretty sure that we WERE expecting an EVOLUTION of the game. Not a watered-down game for the masses. Sure, I can use the editor to "suit" my needs. But the bottom line for me is that it then renders the game "non-ubiquitous", meaning how can you relate to others when they are probably not playing the same game as you are. That is why we want it up to snuff right out of the box. Sure, it will be better once someone realeases a downloadable mod that many of us "whiners" can live with. Then we will be playing the same game. This game is definitely much more like the first Call to Power than it is like Civ2. That, IMO, is not a step forward - or even sideways.

Cripes, is IMPROVEMENT too much to ask??? Or REALISM??? Expressing $49.99 frustrations and shattered optimism is NOT whining.

I must be in the Brian camp...

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Deornwulf
Whatever happened to the age old maxim "The Customer is always right?" Everytime any of you argue with someone's negative appraisal of the game, you are ignoring the fact that since that individual is the consumer, the individual has the right to complain if he or she feels the goods purchased are faulty.

Im not argue against whiners as some kind of official represent (which Im not - obviously). Im argue against you guys as one all-in-all satified CUSTOMER, amongst many. And as a customer Im always right, right? Why should I, as an reasonably satisfied customer be less right, compared to some of the more disgruntled customers in this forum? I have posted over 1500+ lengthy replies over a timespan of 3 years. Shouldnt I have the right to speak out, without being accused to fawning the company line?

It has been said before, but Im saying it again:

Civ-3 is a raw & unpolished diamond. It NEEDS some polishing - some alterations back and fourth. And some additional expansion-stuff, as well. But it has still gem-quality to begin with. No question about it.

[Libertarian]

Originally posted by Th0mas


sheesh Lib

With your attitude I'm surprised any Firaxis guys respond

I can't quite decide whether it's a step up or a step down from the recent days when I was their champion defender and they summarily ignored me. [...shrug...] All in all, I would say same same.

[Canaris]

What arrogance!

My god, the editor was meant to tweak the game for smaller adjustments. I can't use it to change serious FLAWS in the game.

I would be DELIGHTED if someone could point me to where in the editor I make the AI stop cheating and actualy, you know play on the same terms as me.

Just for kicks, I made a custom map giving my self about 25 goodie huts around my starting point. I finished the ancient age in oh 7 or 8 turns. But somehow MIRACULOUSLY the ****ty indians, egyptians and whatever with their SINGLE city managed to keep up with me in technology all the way to the modern ages.

Fact: The AI does not need to research technology. Can I change that in my editor?

Fact: The AI players trade tech's among them freely and instantly even if they have no plausible way of meeting each other.

Fact: AI Wonders of the worlds ARE NOT BUILD. They are just randomly created at the whim of god knows whatever algorithm. I started building leonardos in a size 12 city with a base production of 23 shields/ turn. About 10 turns later the indians started building it too in a rediculously inferior city with not even half the shield production of mine. I kept watching it with my embassy and it was no where near done when I got the message they had completed it. Ironicaly, ONE FRIGGING TURN before mine was done.

Fact: CORRUPTION IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY INSANE. There, I said it, yes you can alter THIS in the editor but even so it's too high. Am I really the only one that feels it's retarded that the it takes at least 100 turns to finish a hidden palace only 5 cities away from your capital. COME ON.

Fact: conquest is utterly pointless in the late game. It takes massive troop allocation to quell the rioting, half the inhabitants will die because after I invade they suddenly forget the way to the fields and mines and wont remember until I finish a temple. Which will take eons to build as it's far from my capital. COME ON

Someone explain to me how I am going to make up for this piece of **** over night not even close to half assed AI by changing unit values names and resource allocation!)#!=)!)#=#!=)#!=)

I played Civ 1 and 2 religiously everyday for ever. And it's only stubborness keeping me playing civ3 once a week now. A part of me just refuses to believe how they screwed up in this game.

Feel free to pick apart my post by pointing at my excessive use of caps and eventual typos/mispellings.

Indiana