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Civilization 3: End of the Line

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  • Civilization 3: End of the Line

    Civilization 3: End of the Line

    It is a hard thing, to give in, to admit to the truth about that rotten feeling, the one that has spread from somewhere deep in your tummy to every part of your body and soul. So pervaded have we become with the sickness of it that a postmortem analysis of our very bones will surely witness the sad fact we now have before us.

    Civilization 3 is not a good game.

    It is an average game. And that is kindly not linking in our expectations of the product. If we did that, it would in no way be adequate.

    I am, by way of ending this chapter of my gaming life, going to share my feelings of what went wrong in the development of the game. I am mixing opinion, fact and assumption. This is what I think.

    The First Mistake: Who designed this game anyway?

    Sid Meier is a great designer who has the freedom to work on whatever project he desires. He has earned it by producing many great and notable games. It is surely not reasonable to expect him to spend two years of his life on a sequel to a sequel to a sequel to one of his earlier games.

    Sid designed neither Civ 2 nor SMAC. Brian Reynolds was responsible for both of these games. With Sid looking on and Brian under the hood things looked great for Civ 3.

    Brian left. Sid had his head in a dinosaur. A dinosaur game. Sid didn't want to do Civ 3 in the first place. Trouble in paradise.

    Instead of having both Sid and Brian, two of the best game designers alive, working on the development team, Civilization 3 ended up being designed by your ordinary run of the mill, "lets hire someone to finish this so Sid can make his damn golf game" type of designer.

    The result was an ordinary run of the mill type of game.

    The Second Mistake: Civ 3 was indeed supposed to be SMAC 2, but heck, its not even Civ 2 and 1/2

    What were they thinking? Civ 3 is the linear successor to SMAC. There was simply no way to back track and eliminate all the enhancements from SMAC and satisfy the gaming public.

    Even worse than that the designers eliminated tons of features from Civ 2 as well and failed to replace them with anything remotely interesting or fun. Civ 3 should be called Civ 1.5 or Civ Lite: The Test of Patience.

    Someone really goofed here. The logical progression from SMAC to Civ 3 would not have been that difficult. Firaxis made progress on the concept of air combat. This seems to prove that progress was technically possible.

    But the designers were off in a different, totally confused direction. Eliminate everything that the player can do to exploit the AI. In the end all they managed to do was create tedious periods of "please wait" until the next available period of micromanagement tedium.

    Someone please tell the Firaxis staff that games are supposed to be fun. They program like IRS agents.

    Rush wonders? Oh no, new rule, wonders can't be rushed.
    Wonders rushed by leaders? Let the morons try that, rule, one great leader per 24.3 hours of game play.
    Specialist cities? Oh no, new rule, specialists only produce one of this or that and no city bonus.

    People were harvesting forests? Oh no, new rule, once per game.
    People were rush conquering? Oh no, size one cities disappear.

    Can anyone else see the pattern here? Any visible trend. Sire, you may attempt to steal that tech for 47,689 gold pieces and only a 98% chance of the whole world going to war on you!

    The thought of future patches make me shudder with apprehension.

    The Third and Final Mistake: Failure to respect the Civilization heritage.

    Civ 3 was rushed out the door with little or no testing. The game was not fully developed. Beyond the lack of MP, it is clear that many of the game elements are just THERE, not in anyway fully integrated into the product.

    Given the fact that Civ 3 was the most anticipated game of the year, maybe in the last several years, this was a CRIME.

    Civilization is no longer the golden name in gaming due to the lackluster effort of Firaxis/Infrogames to produce a worthy successor to this fine line. The inevitable result of trend of milking the public for whatever they will pay.

    I don't mind it too much though. The Firaxians will now learn the third rule of commerce.

    What? The first two?

    I will list all three.

    1. You must work hard to make a successful product.
    2. After that then you can sell anything.
    3. For a while.

  • #2
    Agreed, agreed, and agreed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh what's this. Yet another whiny, droning thread about why Civ3 sucks!!!???
      "To live again, to be.........again" Captain Kirk in some Star Trek Episode. (The one with the bad guy named Henok)
      "One day you may have to think for yourself and heaven help us all when that time comes" Some condescending jerk.

      Comment


      • #4
        One of the best posts I've ever seen at Poly! Honestly. 5 stars.

        From Brian's departure to horridly 'run of the mill' game concepts followed by sub-par implementation and testing, we have precisely what you said:

        The beginning of the end of Firaxis' ability to sell on name alone. Perhaps Sid's golf game can save Firaxis among the mall shoppers, but among the hardcore strategy gamers? Nope.

        Firaxis has just used its Get out of Jail Free card. Next round costs them.

        Civ3 is a game that rewards mediocrity. And, frankly, Civ3 reflects a company that seems to have become mediocre in the process.
        I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

        "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

        Comment


        • #5
          Its not everyday you can get 5 stars from Yin and bore a simpleton with the same post.

          Comment


          • #6
            My Trekkie/geek roots remind me of 5 of the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition:

            #10: Greed is eternal.

            #82: The flimsier the product, the higher the price.

            #87: Learn the customer's weaknesses so you can better take advantage of him.

            #202: The justification of profit is profit.

            #239: Never be afraid to mislabel a product.


            And one they should take to heart:

            #57: Good customers are as rare as latinum--treasure them.


            And one we should learn:

            #141: Only fools pay retail.
            Making the Civ-world a better place (and working up to King) one post at a time....

            Comment


            • #7
              Posting on Poly is a little like potty training. First you do the job and then you peek to see the results.

              Mama gives you a salute (sainews), Daddy pats you on the back (yin) and big brother (simpleton) is there to say he is not impressed.

              Comment


              • #8
                LOL!
                I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This game is better than CivII. At the very least I would call it Civ2.5.

                  It's also better than SMAC--but here I'm biased, because I absolutely despised the setting and pseudo-Star Trek-babble tech tree. That said, in some areas (diplomacy, breadth of the tech tree, and, oh my God yes, COMBAT!) SMAC is vastly superior to CivIII.

                  I've said it before. I'll say it again. CivIII is a better game than CivII or SMAC. It remains to be seen whether it will become a greater game than its' predecessors...
                  "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
                  -- C.S. Lewis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree that this game seems to have been made by less-than-perfect designers. I can't really say mediocre because I'm not sure how to rate them relative to other designers, but here's a few observations that I think illustrate the "nice idea, now get it right" problem with Civ III's design:

                    -Strat. Resources are a very compelling design element that adds quite a lot to the later parts of the game, but the penalty is too large. How about more expensive equivalent units so that the strat. resources are important, but it is not possible to be completely screwed (as it is possible now). Random chance should _influence_ the outcome of a game, not _dictate_ it.

                    -Cultural reversion of captured cities is another good idea that forces some added planning and complexity to conquest, but again the penalty is too severe (losing all units in the city).

                    -MPPs and Alliances are great, but how about _ending_ others' alliances or brokering peace?

                    -No ability to buy peace because AIs won't talk with you until they want peace anyway (because they won't receive your envoy), huh?

                    -Trading is a great addition, but it has become almost necessary because the AIs don't consider _who_ they're trading with. Notably they will continue to trade with and therefore help the #1 civ. Good idea, but needs more work to ensure that the AIs are actually playing to win.

                    -Armies are just not quite right. I can't explain it quickly, but they could have been done much better (or simply eliminated and allow stacked movement).

                    -Occupation of the same square by friendly units isn't possible, even with a RoP. This is just lazy programming.

                    -AI lack of interest in winning prevents them from ganging up on the leader late in the game. This should at least be an option at increased difficulty levels, and it would be a much better thing to tweak than simply giving a production bonus.

                    -A human player struggles for a length of time that is determined by the difficulty setting, but once he becomes the #1 civ, there's no more challenge in the game. There's a long period where he's behind, a brief period where he's competing, and then a long period where victory is simply a matter of getting through the tedium and waiting. The alternative is to simply play until you have a "lock", and then start a new game, but then you never get to have fun in the Modern Age. Either way you have to endure a very long period of build-up for a few turns of interesting competition (military or otherwise).

                    All in all I have enjoyed the game, but it just doesn't have the level of polished fun that I had hoped for. The fact that a lot of good ideas exist tells me that they were trying. The fact that they're not done very well tells me that they lacked talent, time, or both.
                    I'm not giving in to security, under pressure
                    I'm not missing out on the promise of adventure
                    I'm not giving up on implausible dreams
                    Experience to extremes" -RUSH 'The Enemy Within'

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by David Weldon

                      -AI lack of interest in winning prevents them from ganging up on the leader late in the game. This should at least be an option at increased difficulty levels, and it would be a much better thing to tweak than simply giving a production bonus.
                      Actually, though I agree that Civ 3 is fun but less-than-expected, I've seen the AI go after large civs with a vengeance.

                      In one game, the English had a nice continent, twice as large as any other civ, but were unknown to 6 civs until we could cross the oceans. As soon as I gave everyone contact with the English, they immediately set about establishing embargoes and all-out allianced wars against her.

                      But as for the rest... agreed. Armies -- great idea. Cannot upgrade them? Bad idea.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sid gave us Civ and Sid has the right to take it away!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by StellaRossa
                          Sid gave us Civ and Sid has the right to take it away!
                          Contrary to what some people might think, Sid is not Jesus Christ.
                          Or is he? While playing the game I've often said, "Jesus Christ! Fire the guy who programmed the AI to send 50 units across my territory to conquer one enemy city!"

                          Sorry.
                          Formerly known as Masuro.
                          The sun never sets on a PBEM game.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Civilization 3: End of the Line

                            Originally posted by jimmytrick
                            I am, by way of ending this chapter of my gaming life, going to share my feelings of what went wrong in the development of the game. I am mixing opinion, fact and assumption. This is what I think.
                            Looks to me more like a mixture of opinion, opinion, assumption, and opinion.

                            I'm sure there's a fact in there somewhere. Oh, right, Brian left. Reason was all assumption and opinion, but there's your one fact in the whole post.

                            Bravo, troll!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think the main fact is that Civ3 is dull at best. The rest, as you and he point out, is speculation as to how such a thing could happen ... but the result is the main thing, not how it came to be.
                              I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                              "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

                              Comment

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