v1.16f: Issues? Bugs? This is the thread

[Willem]

Re: THIS IS SURELY A BUG!!

Originally posted by Encomium

Obviously, Culture Flipping is determined ONLY by the PROXIMITY of one civ's laborers to their capital city, and no doubt some randomizing factor. It is truly a joke.

Why don't you just read this, you might learn how not to leave yourself vulnerable to a flip.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39825

At the very least, you might learn how the game works before you shoot your mouth off.

To bad you can't win all the time, I guess it's a lousy game if you have to lose once in awhile eh?

[Aachoo]

Resurrected Civs

Jeff,

I installed the second version of the patch immediatley after installing Civ III, so have never played the game w/o the patch or using the first version of the patch.

I have replayed one game several times, restarting from different points to experiment with strategy, etc. In the current version of this game, as in prior versions of the game, I completely destroy a civ, Russia. In the current version of this game, after destroying the last Russian city, I notice that there are still Russian naval units milling about and cities are reverting to Russia in culture flips. But there is no Russian capital in the city location dialog box, I have no embassy with Russia, and the embassy dialog box does not list Russia. When I recapture the flipped cities, Russian naval units are still on the map, I can access Russian leader to discuss trade, etc. but there are no Russian cities listed in city location dialog box. Can a civ have no capital, no cities? Looks like a bug to me.

Geoff

[Romothecus]

Re: Resurrected Civs

Dude, I already posted this bug... its because one or more of the ships is carrying a settler of dead civ. But if you sink that ship, it'll crash the game.

Originally posted by Aachoo
Jeff,

I installed the second version of the patch immediatley after installing Civ III, so have never played the game w/o the patch or using the first version of the patch.

I have replayed one game several times, restarting from different points to experiment with strategy, etc. In the current version of this game, as in prior versions of the game, I completely destroy a civ, Russia. In the current version of this game, after destroying the last Russian city, I notice that there are still Russian naval units milling about and cities are reverting to Russia in culture flips. But there is no Russian capital in the city location dialog box, I have no embassy with Russia, and the embassy dialog box does not list Russia. When I recapture the flipped cities, Russian naval units are still on the map, I can access Russian leader to discuss trade, etc. but there are no Russian cities listed in city location dialog box. Can a civ have no capital, no cities? Looks like a bug to me.

Geoff

[KoenigMkII]

I have an issue with CIV III's handling of the War weariness effect under the Democracy government type:

I am playing v1.16f on a huge world with 12 starting civs. (system: 500MHz PIII, 384MB Ram., Windows 2000)

Larger worlds can have more AI's; more AI's meen it is possible to be at war with a larger number simultaneously.

Each separate war seems to cause its own quota of war weariness if the gamer has a Democratic or Republic gov.

So if you are attacked by distant AI civs you're government will be forced to regress to Monarchy or Communism, and no amount of luxeries/or luxury setting can prevent a plague of unhappy citizens.

If this was a response to a democracy attempting aggressive war, it would be fully justified in gaming terms. But a democracy falling beause it is attacked, fighting a defensive war, and wins every battle??

It is exasperating to be forced to change your government type, with no production or science for 7 turns, in a completely unrealistic way by long-distance DOW's from the AI's.

Democracy is unplayable with a large number of AI rivals, it feels totally unrealistic to spend the last 25% of the game turns in Monarchy. See below for an expansion on this topic.

----------------------------------------------

let me pick a colorful historical example :-)

Pearl Harbour: Japan attacks US fleet: US Democracy unites against external agression and fights a victorious total war against Japan.

Now at what stage during this war did the US cities start to burn down in Riots?? At what stage did a workers insurrrection occur? What year did America invite the King of England back to run her war for her? :-)

-------------------------------------------
A few thoughts on how to address this:
Perhaps a more sensible restriction on Democracies would be to ban them from raising captured enemy cities to the ground under all circumstances [exception: using nukes in retaliation]

If thats done, then defensive war war-weariness can be removed completely - agressive war war-weariness can remain as it is, since that is realistic and it would make the gameplay more fun.

Again, first use of Nuclear weapons should cause unhappiness in the home cites. But if the AI starts a nuclear war, then the gamer should be allowed full and total freedom in nuclear targeting, if he/she is just retaliating.

-------------------------------------------
New Government type needed?
The alternative is to allow a Democarcy/Republic to switch to a Facist government (As Republic but with 3 Mil units as Military police, 30% science penalty, full mobilisation restrctions [no civilian improvments], all moral restrictions removed, perhaps with a special 10 turn time penalty to change back to Democracy.

With Facism, it the science penalty could grow with time, as long term restrictions on freedom of expression will allways slow science down. It would also discourage use of Facism except as a last resort.

A special punishment for use of the Facism gov type could be a reduction in your score, and a skull and cross-bones icon blinking accusingly on one of the last, victory, screens...

All of the above is just IMHO of course :-)

[KoenigMkII]

My second major issue is with the dreaded corruption in Civ III:

The level of corruption experienced by a democratic government is largely irrelevent (in the real world) to capital location.- In Civ III the location of the capital /Forbidden city are absolutely crucial, even in the higher goverments.

This is a near perfect model for a Despotism/Monarchy/Communism, sort of OK for republic (but corruption should still be less intense for republic), but an absurd one for a high tech democracy.

On a huge map, corruption is not controllable once a democracy is a fifth of the land area of the map - the peripheral cities are horribly crippled. But a lot depends on the shape of the Civ's territory - its the distance from Cap. /F.C. factor that kills your production.

Since the location of vital resources is not known until you have the tech to see them on the map, axis of previous expansion may leave a gamer with extremely poorly placed capital and F.C. for future desired expansion -its not enough to build a colony/isolated city near enough to a vital resource, its a sitting duck for the AI's naval-heavy strategy. Once the Harbour allowing access to a distant resource is destroyed- zap, no coal/oil/iron etc.

To protect your vital resorces securely only defence in depth will do. This meens ideally a ring of productive cities with strong garrisons. Because of the illogical (IMHO) "curruption is a function of distance from capital" in Civ III for a Democratic government, you can easily find yourself building totally crippled cities, and forced to buy cultural city improvements at high cost to prevent flipping/AI infiltration.

All of the above problems still apply with all the anti-corruption city improvements taken in account. Democracy dosn't help, indeed democracy is the biggest symptom that the corruption/waste schema is not working in Civ III for the late game.

On a huge map, corruption/waste cannot be fixed by the gamer, its just a total fun killer for the last 25% of the game turns. The special resources are a great idea - but we need to expand to use them.

Some folks using standard size maps are claiming that the corruption in 1.16f is not that bad/manageable. I wonder if the scale factor that adjusts corruption for the larger maps has some kind of problem with it??

[star mouse]

Display bug with modified BIC file

I am playing with a modified BIC file, where I have adjusted the experience levels to these settings:

• Conscript = 3
• Regular = 5
• Veteran = 8
• Elite = 12

The display bug happens when a unit with an experience level greater than the usual 5 is moved across the map. The bar is longer than usual, and when the unit moves, it is not redrawn properly.

The attached image shows a Japanese galley off the coast of my Iroquois empire. It is Veteran (8 max health). It was also damaged by a Barbarian privateer in combat (Barbarian privateers are another mod). The damaged bits of the health bar are not being redrawn.

I have also noticed this bug happening when an undamaged unit moves. In this case, the little yellow dot at the top of the movement bar is not being erased. Units that are being moved sometimes leave trails of little yellow dots.

[Willem]

I've spent the last 2 months working on a mod and tonight, as I was putting through what I hoped was it's final paces, I discovered that the game was resetting my science rate. Every turn for at least 10 turns, I would turn the science rate down to 10%. And every turn the game would put it up to 40%. I decided to try using the original BIC to see what would happen and sure enough, the problem went away.

So please hurry up with that damn patch and the new editor because I just don't want to do any more! My heart's really not not into starting from scratch again just to find out what's causing this bug.

[DaXX]

the game should report an error if you try to start two copies

popup a little messagebox and just say "Civ is already running"

[DaXX]

Ok currently this glitch is causing me some pretty harsh gloom and doom.....


i have a 2 movement point tank, take it and assault a square with a single enemy unit. if i vanquish it, i roll over it and can attack another square.

if i do the same exact thing, except assault a square with multiple units in it.... if i win combat victory, that's it. my turn is over for that tank. but wait i thought i have two movement points and i can attack multiple times??? so why the harsh penalty for attacking a square that contains multiple units??? i'm not talking about assaulting a city here, i'm talking about combat on the open terrain of the fertile steppe.

so now i run my tanks around my railroad networks looking to assault squares with just 1 unit in them so i can do multiple attacks... lame workaround... the enemy can bring a stack of 8 knights *KNIGHTS* at me, i need to respond with *8* tanks!! ugh

[Willem]

Originally posted by DaXX
the game should report an error if you try to start two copies

popup a little messagebox and just say "Civ is already running"

I wasn't running two copies, I switched Bic files then started again.

[DaXX]

Originally posted by Willem


I wasn't running two copies, I switched Bic files then started again.

my post was unrelated to yours

[DaXX]

There should be an option under "Show units over cities" that allows "Show units over boats"

[Willem]

Originally posted by DaXX


my post was unrelated to yours

Oh, sorry.

[DaXX]

when using GoTo with my galley's, the course computation fails often when dealing with gaps of the maximum range. i'm on an archipellago with lots of 3-space gaps, the ship range is 3, skipping from island to island in some areas requires you to have the full movement points allowed... it appears the logic in place doesn't know the technique of going to that location, pausing a turn to have full movement points, then fjording the gap.

this shouldn't be too hard to code as i am able to fjord these gaps quite easily using my primitive monkey brain logic

[star mouse]

Originally posted by DaXX
when using GoTo with my galley's, the course computation fails often when dealing with gaps of the maximum range of my galley

You've got to have SOME advantage over the AI and its ocean-going galleys....