Am I the only one that finds this patch...pathetic?

[Antonin]

Originally posted by EnigmaticGod
I was very nice at one point, but the time for civility has ended. You can't be nice with these people, it just doesn't work. As soon as you say "nice patch" they're going to say "Thanks, enjoy the game. we'll see you when civ4 comes out". And this also bring up another interesting point. Notice the people who love the game, all new players to apolyton. Notice who most the people are who hate the game? People who have been at apolyton for years. It just goes to show that Firaxis didn't have the hardcore gamer in mind, rather they built this for the casual lets kill some time gamer. Is that a bad thing? Well lets just see how long Civ3 is popular for. Somehow I don't think the "Lets kill some time" gamers are going to be around 6 months from now.

How does one's time as a member of a forum translate into whether or not you are a hardcore gamer? Methinks that chip doth ride a little too smugly upon thy shoulder, sonny.

As for your comment "the time for civility has ended" -- what does that mean? Cool off. You're too emotional. It's just a game. If it has you this bothered, then maybe it's time to step away.

[EyesOfNight]

lol I know, I edited it a few minutes ago. I was really pissed though. Firaxis is very very arrogant. They're pretty much telling the players, either like what we've made or don't play it. No other gaming company would say that. They would look into the problem and change it in order to keep their customers. Firaxis has their money, they don't really care that much now. They're more interested in their next project, civ4. They also have this nice little way of appeasing us by saying "Don't like it, go edit it". While some may say, that's a great idea! What you really should be saying is..."Why do I need to edit this game so much and mod it and tweak it before I can finally enjoy it?" I more than anyone want this game to be successful. I have played it for longer than just about anyone. I also was the best player at civ2 MP, so you can understand why I want civ3 to be good. I'm not expecting much though.

[wal35]

Originally posted by EnigmaticGod
I was very nice at one point, but the time for civility has ended. You can't be nice with these people, it just doesn't work. As soon as you say "nice patch" they're going to say "Thanks, enjoy the game. we'll see you when civ4 comes out". And this also bring up another interesting point. Notice the people who love the game, all new players to apolyton. Notice who most the people are who hate the game? People who have been at apolyton for years. It just goes to show that Firaxis didn't have the hardcore gamer in mind, rather they built this for the casual lets kill some time gamer. Is that a bad thing? Well lets just see how long Civ3 is popular for. Somehow I don't think the "Lets kill some time" gamers are going to be around 6 months from now.

Get over yourself and Apolyton for that matter. Apolyton is nice (if a bit full of juvenille whiners) but being an Apolyton newbie doesn't mean you're a newbie Civ player. Personally I think Firaxis listened quite well to the hardcore civ gamers (i.e. SP TBS fans) and thankfully didn't get over worried about the RTS fans sorry MP fans as there are plenty of variations on the tank rush to keep them amused between episodes of Teletubbies.

[Disk Killer]

This is ridiculous.

I'm no fanboy, but freaking out about a patch that you haven't even tried yet is moronic. And considering that it appears they've fixed the most pressing problems with the game is a damn good first step.

Wah, they rushed it out the door.
Wah, they're taking too long with the patch.
Wah, they changed too much from Civ2/SMAC.
Wah, they're not enough changes with the patch.
Wah, it's not like it is IN MY MIND.

It's disgusting. Worse, it was the EXACT SAME freakin' arguments when Master of Orion 2 came out, and now everyone remembers daisies and roses about that game. I was on the largest forum for that game [don't remember the name of it for the life of me though] and I heard the same crap I hear now.

I think they should be commended for listening to our suggestions/complaints and ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Unlike a half-dozen other companies....

I swear, I saw at least 20 things on that list that MUST have come directly from posts here on this forum.

Anyway, I think the vast majority of users will be happy with this and I'm sure Firaxis is not finished with the patches, based on their previous Gold-Star record regarding patching their products to make them better. Even though some people will never be satisfied...

[Disk Killer]

Originally posted by wal35


Get over yourself and Apolyton for that matter. Apolyton is nice (if a bit full of juvenille whiners) but being an Apolyton newbie doesn't mean you're a newbie Civ player. Personally I think Firaxis listened quite well to the hardcore civ gamers (i.e. SP TBS fans) and thankfully didn't get over worried about the RTS fans sorry MP fans as there are plenty of variations on the tank rush to keep them amused between episodes of Teletubbies.

Being a gamer since 1981 [Commodore Vic-20, I was 4 years old!]; through my C64 [best game: Pirates!], IBM XT [best game: Empire], 386[best game: Command HQ], Pentium-150 [best game: Civilization], Celeron-541 [best game: SMAC] and 1 year now Celeron-850 [best game: too early to tell]; I thank you for pointing out that we Apolyton newbs are not necessarily gaming newbs.

[Buster13]

A little perspective, crass naysayers...

I am new to Apolyton
I am not new to Civilization
I would consider myself a hardcore gamer
I am dissapointed with the lack of scope in the patch
I'm not going to let it ruin my life

Now certainly if FIRAXIS decides that thier support for this game is at an end than you, and I, have a right to complain. It's been a month, man...they probably can't devote thier entire staff to a low or no profit programming exercise. Do they need to add Multiplayer, Scenario, etc. etc. changes additions and fixes? Of course...if they intend the game to have a following for another release, but give them a little time, man.

Now, FIRAXIS. You could have done better. I like most of the changes you've made...but a majority of it was cosmetic...and that's not going to get it done with me. Read the threads, take notes, and fix the game as legitimately suggested. K?

E

[Jerk]

Where is the patch! How come the patch isn't out yet. Where is the patch. You stupid idiots I want a patch! Give me a patch now! Where is it?

WHAT? The patch doesn't have everything I want in it! What is going on here why can't you accomplish everything I have demanded rudely to you people! I can't believe this. Only an IDIOT would not do everything all at once just to appease me! GOD this sucks. Now I feel I must take a completely unreleated incident involving a translation project and apply it here and take a cheap shot! I am soo PISSED!

Good, now that I have the sarcasm out of my system I can comfortably waltz over to my profile and put you on ignore. You have not made one rational complaint and all you do is name call. You give members here a bad name. If I worked for Firaxis and saw the junk you post I would probably not come back. The fact that they can look past your bad attitude and address real posters who are here to discuss the game rationally is a real testament to their dedication. You embarass your fellow civ gamers who you are trying to incite into some meaningless revolt. You also accomplish very little for the game. I am sure after reading one of your posts in the patch thread they have completely tuned you out and consider you to be a fanatic who won't be happy regardless of what happens.

As for your specific complaint:

And they only made things worse by making it now 40 turns for max amount of science turns. Great, now republic will take 40 turns intead of 32 no matter what the tax rate. As if techs didn't take long enough already

If I am not mistaken this is the MAX turns not the minimum turns. If you are researching technology THAT slowly in the game then it's your own fault. I don't think it ever took me 32 turns to research Republic.

If you still find that 40 or even 32 is too much then by all means open up the editor and change it. It's really not that hard to do. If and when multiplayer is introduced through a patch or an expansion pack I assume it will have a number of game rules that can easily be adjusted to create a 'standard'. I know you think that the game should come exactly as you like it without having to do anything but that is just not reality. I am happy with the 40 turn max and I am sure many other players are too. I look forward to installing the patch and putting to good use the changes they did make. I also look forward to future patches to adjust and further tweak the game. I also look forward to seeing you post the exact same things when Civ4 comes out and watching you praise civ3 for how perfect and flawless it was when it was released versus the unplayable untested horrible Civ4.

[Ludwig]

I'm really pissed off that this patch doesn't change the game into Homeworld II! I was really looking forward to playing Homeworld II! They're ignoring my wishes, these ****ers!

How dare they ignore my wishes and issue a patch that leaves the game the same, and just fixes bugs? I want an entirely different game, damn it!

This patch should have changed everything about this game! Haven't we demanded it loudly enough? It should have changed the combat system, it should have renamed all the Civs, it should have gotten rid of the culture system, it should have changed "corruption" into "resource drones" and re-set the game into a 3D real time strategy space fleet warfare game like Homeworld! And it should have massively multiplayer online capability like Allegiance! Damn it!

They obviously have no idea what the game community wants and are just trying to give us shoddy patches!

[OK, enough sarcasm. I hope this is just the first patch, because there's more to be done. This is good for a start, though.]

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by EnigmaticGod
lol I know, I edited it a few minutes ago. I was really pissed though. Firaxis is very very arrogant. They're pretty much telling the players, either like what we've made or don't play it. No other gaming company would say that. They would look into the problem and change it in order to keep their customers. Firaxis has their money, they don't really care that much now. They're more interested in their next project, civ4. They also have this nice little way of appeasing us by saying "Don't like it, go edit it". While some may say, that's a great idea! What you really should be saying is..."Why do I need to edit this game so much and mod it and tweak it before I can finally enjoy it?" I more than anyone want this game to be successful. I have played it for longer than just about anyone. I also was the best player at civ2 MP, so you can understand why I want civ3 to be good. I'm not expecting much though.

Um, excuse me? Who is the arrogant one here?? Who is the one posting in numerous threads because the features "he" wanted didn't make it into the patch??

FYI, some of us have other things to do than have been on Apolyton for the past 5 years playing Civ2. There are other games and other things to do in life you know?

If Firaxis didn't care would they even bother with a patch? Seriously, they have a game that people seem to like and have gotten a LOT of good reviews. Do you think if they just put the game out and never patched it they wouldn't still make a lot of money? Outside the closed world here at 'Poly (and those who frequent here) I have yet to see major criticism's of the game. Some people think it's a simplistic game, and some might not like specific features, but I have yet to read the broad, generic, whining and bashing for the game that occurs here.

One comment about your "modest" comment about how you were the best at Civ2MP. Civ2, when it originally shipped HAD NO MP. Obviously you didn't play it long enough (even though you played it longer than anyone apparently) or else you'd know the history of the series as well as the history of the many patches each game recieves to tweak it after release.

Be thankful that (apparently) Firaxis is here and pays attention to the gamers enough to take their suggestions to heart. I know other companies, like Blizzard, that don't give a rat's azz about the gamers and blatantly tell them so ("we know how to design games better than even the game players") so be THANKFUL that the folks at Firaxis DO seem to want to improve tha game and make it more fun for everyone.

Oh, and regarding your whine about "in a MP game everyone has to play with defaults so why can't they be how I want them (paraphrased)", well remember that EVERYONE in MP will be playing the same as you. The people who can play the best will win without having to "cheat" the game or use ICS (did you like or dislike ICS, my bet is you liked it) and you don't like the fact you might lose.

[cavebear]

I don't expect a patch to make everything I want appear. I do expect a patch to solve the obvious and generally known problems.

There are some things I like about the game, and there are some things I don't.

But, I can't find where to get the patch. I assume it corrects *some* things, and that is good enough for now for me. Can someone tell me where to get it?

[Dr. Nick]

From what I gather, the old hardcore poly-civvers were the ones with the suggestions and ideas for firaxis (because it was hosted here). After tens of thousands of posts of positive suggestions, a lot of stuff was ommitted or ignored, which means that a lot people who spent a lot of time making suggestions with firaxis saying "ah, yes, we'll include that" or the other means that they were deceived. They feel cheated. They feel like it was their game as much as it was firaxis' or infogrames'. And I understand them. If they were going to ignore the games, why even put up a suggestions and ideas forum?

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by CapTVK



That's a Derek Smart move, Dan. Does this mean I'm on your ignore list?


My main interest for Civ3 is based on scenarios and MP which I enjoy playing very much in Civ2. Also the reason why I haven't looked into Civ3 yet. Civ3 interests me, but the threshold for me to play hasn't been reached, yet.

The patch solves a lot of bugs and minor issues for SP. The news on the scen and MP side. Is still unknown at the time.



And please, don't fall to Derek's level.

No, you're not, that was for the other "participant" in this "discussion" (and I use both of those terms loosely).
I don't mind criticism, cynicism, or sarcasm, but I'm somewhat fond of common civility and respect.

Man, a Derek Smart move? That was a zinger!! Hey, at least I've never attacked a coke machine before..


Dan

[kmj]

Am I the only one that finds this jerk ...pathetic?

The only thing I find pathetic is your attitude and presentation. If you expect to get any response other than from Fireaxis, you might as well drop this account and get a new one and make sure you don't act like cretin with that one. Ozymandous is on point. Actually, on the internet, I've rarely met anyone who wasn't arrogant.

I really like having the developers listening and responding here, and its the jackoffs like you who are going to ruin that.

[sachmo71]

Attacking the patch before you even see how differently the game plays...now that is pathetic.

[Barchan]

EnigmaticGod, it would seem the answer to your thread's question is yes. I suppose you may take consolation that the Japanese have a proverb for this: The raised nail gets hammered down.

BTW: I've played the Civilization series since its inception, and this is by far the best version yet, bugs and all. I'm sure Firaxis will continue to improve it as time goes on. Thanks, guys. Keep at it....