Civ IV: The List v.2.0

[Mongoloid Cow]

A bit more:

CITY IMPROVEMENTS:

Hospital - all units heal faster. Allows city to grow above a certain size. Happiness +1. Decreases disease by 75%

Stadium - modern Colosseum. Gives +1 gold per turn.

Theater - Happiness +2, Cultural improvement.

Mill - increases food produce per turn by 50%. No maitenance.

Apothecary (modern Pharmacy) - Decreases disease by 25%. Makes one citizen content. 1 maitenance.

[GePap]

MOre not always better

Personally, I don't think that more stuff equals better. The most important is to have well designed sysytem, no matter how complex or simple, that work well to enhance the overall play. In my opinion, the main problem with civ3 is not that they did not include lots and lots for me to build or micromanage, but that the workings of the macro-notions (culture, resource system, diplomacy in general) don't work (in my humble opinion) as best as they could, specially if we take into consideration what Fixaris wanted to do in this game, which was make the peacefull option a viable one, even in diety. The fact that no one seems to talk about winning peacefully in diety seems to be a sort of proof that the concepts as they are were not exploited as best they could. As for new ideas to add to the list, I have a couple of floating threads but I have yet to figure how to create links in these posts, so just look for my name. Besides, they are rather long.

[LouLong]

Ressources :

- ability to stockpile some ressources (non plant nor animal) to prepare for war for example.
- growing ressources (tea, grapes,...) or animals (horses, elephants) could be learnt or stolen form someone else and developped in ur own area (provided the climate is k)


Example : the English developped tea in India, coffee in America or France that stole China silk.

- A climate limitation for some ressources (animals or plants)
- transformation of luxuries over the areas (from incense to coffee or tobacco) and the enability to produce ur own luxuries if u have factories (TV, ...)

- a Ressouce screen rather than a trade one. You can see all the ressources u have access to or stockpiled and can decide (click) to trade it or transform it for example (if u have a factory and it can be transformed). For both luxuries and strategic.


- poppies / opium : without the tea/opium trade, England and Hong Kong would have been real different


Manpower :
- more specialists and make them possible only after some tech discoveries
- slaves : as bad as slavery is, it had (until very very recently in some areas) a strong economical and sociological importance. They could not be assimilated or extremely slowly until emanciption but would cost/eat less. Possibility to trade them a bit as some worker units. Could act as workers or be incorporated into cities. Obtained when destroying a barbarian camp.
Foreign workers could be assimilated as well as citizens.
- Immigration : advantage and shortcoming. Possibility to accept or refuse, nationwide or in some cities (macro or micro-issue)


Events :
U remember Civ the boardgame ?
Floods, draughts,... events. Diseases (a little attempt in jungle and flood plains here) that would spread along trade routes. Possibilities to act on blocade (macro or micro-issue)
On the other hand, cities could grow more quickly (though limited in size at the beginning) so that it is a problem to deal with but not a decisive drawback.


Regards,

[DarkCloud]

Thank you for continuing to submit- I believe I'll have added all the new ideas to the list by tommorrow- and then I hope to have the list sent off within the week

[Juggernaut]

Religion:
There should be several different religions, with authentic names like Islam, Christianity etc. if one prefers so. Each religion would be rated on a orthodoxity scale. The more orthodox, the more prone the practicing civ would be to reject science. This could be illustrated by having limits on available research rate on the Domestic Advisor screen. Only a practically atheist civ should be a granted 100% research rate. Look at Bush's current cloning bashing, for instance.

But, there must be some pros with having a religion right?
Yes,
Without a current religion, you can't build any religious improvements. Hence, religion will be an essential part of the management until the discovery of advances such as Electricity etc, which allows construction of modern happiness-related improvements such as stadiums, TV stations (one's enough, although all cities must be connected via cable), outruling the religious improvements with their superiority.
The more orthodox a religion is, the more happiness does the improvement give. Look at eg. the complete death-defy of the Taliban soldiers.
This also opens up for a most wanted return of Fundamentalism. The most orthodox regims doesn't approve Democracy as government.
As for diplomacy, certain religions are more tolerant to other religions than other, although Islam and Hinduism should be made the most ignorant.

[Trifna]

- "Rice" tiles : can't produce anything else than food, but lots of it, say five or six, and more with irrigation / railroad / farmland.

I'm not sure it's like in reality... Don,t they irrigate to much it's all wet? they could do something else, but it's just that they need rice to eat. No? [I'll search later, I have stuff to do now )

[H Tower]

we're starting this already? get a life

[Trifna]

Culture win and culture effect in general could be ameliorated and here is how:


- A culture of a certain strenght isn't what matters to take over others. As military wars, what matters is the DIFFERENCE of strenght between cultures. That's why, you'll say, they put that rule about "no other player having more than ***", but it could be better. I think that you could even win with the half of what is needed now if the others are really bad on culture. But one player could totally out of the game because he was too much behind others.

- BORDERS!!!!! It would be better if the borders didn't represented a I-dunno-what and represent countries' boundaries instead, like how we draw maps... And this way of making so that cities take more space when they have more culture isn't really okay towards reality. Cities don't take more physical space just because they're great. they take some because they need space, economical factors, human factors, etc. So I think that high culture cities should cause stability issues to nearby opponent's cities. The opponent would see him slowly having unhappy faces in his cities and would have to deal with it, with an amplified stress of observing the problem coming and trying to counter it.

[Trifna]

propaganda

Propaganda is already in spying options, but only against the enemy, and not used for ourselves to calm down people.

In History, it was used more to calm the people of its own country than to invade. Exemples? Rome used it (by inserting latin everywhere and man other ways), the Church used it, United States during the Vietnam or Gulf war, lot of countries when it was time to go against Hitler (movies, etc.) and many others, since human beeing is born.

[Trifna]

Re: propaganda

Originally posted by Trifna
Propaganda is already in spying options, but only against the enemy, and not used for ourselves to calm down people.

In History, it was used more to calm the people of its own country than to invade. Exemples? Rome used it (by inserting latin everywhere and man other ways), the Church used it, United States during the Vietnam or Gulf war, lot of countries when it was time to go against Hitler (movies, etc.) and many others, since human beeing is born.

Oh, I forgot: it could have many very realistic uses in Civ, such as counter corruption and war weariness

[Trifna]

Trading maps

Trading maps could be arranged a little.

Here are some ideas:

1- Possibility of exchanging territorial maps. Exemple: giving all cartographic info we have about China (their territory only) or of our own country. Territory not possessed by any country could be traded too. Useful to unveil the enemy without unveiling ourselves. Or to mutually unveil our territories.

2- Possibility of only exchange cartographic info, without exchanging info about ressources emplacement. Veeeeery useful... Also opposit: possibility of exchanging present info about where are which ressources. Here also, it could be done per territory, but I guess you would necessarily need the map first!

3- Possibility of doing the two things already mentioned, but by determining the territory per city territory instead of civilization territory. Pointless? Well, could be useful to unveil only a PART of a territory. Do you really think Europeans gave their discoveries' maps?... Anyone wanna try for asking maps of USA's Zone 51? Good luck and carry a M-16 with ya. Now you stil could furnish maps of only a part of your territories without problem. Or maybe you could determine, before exchanging, which city territory you'll pass to anyone asking for your territory map? Well... this idea stil needs some polishing to know how it may be useful and I have an exam tommorow.

Maybe that we could say we give all our maps without iving all in fact. Or maybe it would just make it complicated? Waiting for critics; I'm sleepy.

Cya...

[Trifna]

1-
Something would be nice also (if no one talked about it)...

The foreign advisors window should be able to support as much civilizations as possible, simply by puting icons maybe somewhat smaller when you have too much civs.


2-
Also, some way to pass by the north pole to go on the "other side" of the map would be nice. As submarines lurking under arctic between Canada and Russia.

And since we're talking about it, maybe some floating ice as arctic? lol It would just be logical for the top north and top south of maps... and cool
I guess it would block boats but not other units (ground units, submarines, air units). (I guess such conditions are quite hard to pass for ground units though)

[Trifna]

privateers

If I'm right, privateers are these pirates that got subventions from some kingdoms, right? Then I was thinking that we could simply SUBVENTION them. You have no control on the boat (since it's not controlled by the state at all) but they will just be paid to go attacking a given ennemy and give them trouble


Oh, also, I think that the colonization system could get some theoric helping to make it more closely to what it was in rel world, with great colonization.

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by H Tower
we're starting this already? get a life

I'll respond with the classic quote:

"H Tower, screw you very much. You are officially an idiot.

You obviously do not have a life or even much use for your time considering you are complaining about people who are trying to accomplish something- look to yourself first before passing judgement.
-
Here is the temporary website for the ideas list: I'll send the list off as an html file- but the site is not completely formatted yet.

http://home.att.net/~civgames/ideas.html

Thank you for the many ideas Trifna.
About the email, Trifna- Feel free to post here; It's easier for me to see it here than for my mailbox to be spammed

I'll see what I can do to keep up the list after the first sending off and probably will update it- but I do have other responsibilities at apolyton, so, after this list is sent off, I think I'll have about a 2 week vacation from listmaking

It won't be put to garbage after- perhaps I can convince mark and dan to put it on the site

[Spiffor]

I thought about an information screen telling everything about another civ. It would be accessed by right clicking the portrait of a foreign leader in the diplo screen. It could look like the attached picture.
(Here I'm commenting the picture. If my post interest you, you should watch it first). The shown resources are everything the foreign civ has at disposal (local + import), not only what they can trade. This way, you know if they can build knights or not at all. The "may want" resources are what they could buy from you. When your cursor is on a resource, you have a small popup which indicates where it comes from, or where it goes to (like "fine chinese silk" in your trade advisor)
The map is here so that you know where are the cities, like at the culture advisor.
The science tab would show all their knowledge, the most recent discoveries they made being at the top (it is useless to know directly they mastered writing when you have to scroll down all the way to know if they have advanced flight).
The buttons in the bottom would make it more practical to go spying (you are directly spying by the French) or comparing their army (you go directly to the defense advisor screen, the French being in the right column)