Venger, I feel your pain

[WhiteElephants]

Originally posted by Venger

I will never play a communist form of government, just as I wouldn't play a Nazi form of government...

And don't tell me that I can change governments. Thats like saying the US should change to a theocracy so we can better defeat terrorism.

Well, well gentlemen another case of the realism blues got you down again?

I hate to say it fellas, but with this attitude you're never going to be satisfied.

[D4everman]

Well, well gentlemen another case of the realism blues got you down again?

Care to explain that comment? I can't speak for Venger, but I can for myself. I think the War Weariness for a democracy needs some changing. I've told you why. You disagree. Care to explain your position or do you just want to sound like someone that has an opinion with no basis?

[WhiteElephants]

Originally posted by D4everman


Care to explain that comment? I can't speak for Venger, but I can for myself. I think the War Weariness for a democracy needs some changing. I've told you why. You disagree. Care to explain your position or do you just want to sound like someone that has an opinion with no basis?

I'm suggesting that if you play the game as if it is a simulation of reality you are going to be let down.

Your quote --

And don't tell me that I can change governments. Thats like saying the US should change to a theocracy so we can better defeat terrorism.

-- as well as Venger's suggests you are approaching the game as though it has "real world" effects and consequences.

Let me ask you a question: Why is suggesting to you that you should change your government to one more suited for war before going to war, or when someone declares war on you, such a bad suggestion?

The whole approach to this problem appears to be yet another incarnation of the combat realism debate.

[GePap]

Problem with A.I.

to D4everman:
The problem of the A.I. noty talking to you is a problem with the A.I., not with the concept of war weariness as has been instituted. I once had the problem you had, when while fighting a major war as a democracy my goverment went into extreme war weariness and I could not get many more troops. To make things worst, I tried to switch over from democracy but this lead to an endless bout of anarchy instead. Still, if you can beat his main armies and cripple his military, that should be enough to get the a.i. to back down. Also, try to take out their capitol to make them cry uncle.
I just thought of this, but have a period of anarchy and switch to a republic or just have anarchy, and go for dem again. I don't know if this would reset the war weariness or not. Its not pretty, but its there.

[N. Machiavelli]

Fighting a Democratic War

Sure, maintaining any form of a prolonged war as a Democracy can take some effort in Civ3, but I've learned to cope. Once I aquire Democracy, unless I'm currently at war, I switch to it, usually from a Republic. Up until the industrial age, I play aggressive only when it comes to colonization and spreading my borders. I usually play Switzerland for the majority of the game and stay neutral: no alliances and NO MPP's, unless it's with all the remaining civs. I have found that if you have MPP's with two civ's at war, they will ASK you to declare war on the opponent, but the game will not force you to hurt your rep by attacking the civ which you have a Right of Passage with.

Sounds wimpy? Sure. But that is simply to bide your time. All this time, I have used the 'trade' advantage to gain resources, stay ahead in tech, maintain a huge standing army, and keeping the luxeries at 60-70%. The other important thing is to maintain a high culture rating: this determines how many of the conquered citizens will be in 'resistance' when you take their city. Once the inevitable WW breaks out at around the industrial age (nearly every game I've played), you can be selective on who you attack. But if you are a Democracy, never, never, never fight a war that you cannot win. Once the tide turns against you, THAT'S when your cities start to give you grief that is uncontrollable. Otherwise, if you continue to be victorious (or even simply not lose), you have a few options available to you based on your situation.

1.) Make sure that the first city you conquer has access (road or harbor) to your main empire so luxeries can get in. That will ensure that once the resistance is over, there will be few citizens that are unhappy. This helps fight the city reverting back to the enemy civ once you have your entire army encamped there. By the time I evr go to a prolonged war, I am a economical and luxurious super giant, able to sway the citizens to my side. However, if the legitimate strategy of conquest is not enough even with luxeries....well, make sure that the only citizens left in those cities are more sympathetic to your cause.
It's called genocide folks. if the city you enter has too much resistance and unhappy people, starve them. It's cruel in real life, but cut off all food squares and let the population drop to nothing, then allow growth. The new citizens will be loyal to you, and resitant to subversion by the enemy. You'll be surprised how quickly a starving city becomes more hospitable to you, only a handfull of turns.

2.) Scorched Earth. If you cannot keep the citizens happy enough to stop them from going back to the enemy, conduct a more attritionistic war and raze the newly-conquered cities. Bring along some extra workers (with riflemen/infantry to protect them) and build new roads/railroads over the now 'neutral' ground. Rinse and repeat.

It seems a little extreme, but I have yet to plunge into Anarchy from a Democracy. Even in my current game, (played on emporor level, huge archapelago map w/12 civs as Americans), I have been a Democracy for 400 years and have been in near-constant warfare the entire time. At the begining, I was a mere 12 cities on my little island and now own neary the entire map and waging a successful campaign against the French and Babylonians, the only 2 civs left. Over the course of this entire game, I have lost 1 city to enemy subversion and that was 2 turns after I conquered the Egyptian capital.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Venger
P.S. Thanks for being topical and not calling me a name...

but you still are the King O'Whiners