Do we have combat all wrong??

[Excelsior]

Re: Re: What about bombardment?

Originally posted by Arkatreides
Armies are not screwed up if you go over the 20HP limit. In fact for a while I had elite units with 20HP and I could easily make a 60HP army. It just doesn't show all the HP dots on the screen, but who cares. The problem with 20HP units (a factor of 4 vs the original setup) is that you cannot multiply bomabrd by 4 as the maximum it allows is 10 and some units like bombers have an original value of 3.

Really? That's great; I was afraid that it would. Maybe it messes up the AI, though? Since I changed it in my copy, I am quite sure I've seen two or three AI armies composed of one unit.

[Bobstah]

Originally posted by J10

I mean com'on, yesterday I lost two 5hp Elite Calvaries attacking one 1hp Calvary on grassland in a row, and finally had to kill that 1hp Calvary with a 4hp Calvary which wounded up having 1 hp left.

We must be missing something. The chance of losing 14 rounds in a row when the odds are 2-1 in your favour (per round) is infinitesimally small. The manual says sometimes a unit just gets lucky. Maybe this means there is a fixed chance of winning regardless of the odds?

And once again, if underdogs are made easlier to win, then battle tactics are not as important anymore

Now that there aren't so many guarantees, tactics are FAR MORE important.

[KlausD]

The reason why the combat system in CIV is really a crap is that its the same like the old game "empire."
The people at firaxis did not check that the times are changing. Such an old and silly combat system is just not the state of art. They should learn how combat could be resolved from games like Call to Power or Axis and Allies.

BTW I miss already the underwater cities of CTP . Firaxis should introduce them in a patch.

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by Bobstah
We must be missing something. The chance of losing 14 rounds in a row when the odds are 2-1 in your favour (per round) is infinitesimally small.

The chance of losing 13 rounds in a row in that situation would be about 0.00014%, I think.

[Akka]

Originally posted by Excelsior


The chance of losing 13 rounds in a row in that situation would be about 0.00014%, I think.

It's exactly : 100/2^13, so 100/8192, so 0,0122 %.
Half of that for 14 rounds in a row

[Sevorak]

Maybe this means there is a fixed chance of winning regardless of the odds?

Bobstah, that is a very interesting proposition that needs to be given more attention. What if there IS a fixed autowin percentage of 5-10%? That would explain situations where the random number generator appears to be broken and one side, regardless of odds, wins 4-0 or 5-0.

-Sev

[zapperio]

the chance of someone exaggerating on a open forum are, I'd say... 50/1.

Zap

[Venger]

Originally posted by J10
Personally, I do not like underdogs to win, I do NOT.

Reason: Battle tactics are made less useful than it was in Civ2 if you screw it up so that underdogs can win.

I agree - underdogs are fine, but the Civ3 combat system is a deus ex machina...

[quoteI mean com'on, yesterday I lost two 5hp Elite Calvaries attacking one 1hp Calvary on grassland in a row, and finally had to kill that 1hp Calvary with a 4hp Calvary which wounded up having 1 hp left. Someone who's still in college doing probability can tell us the chance of that in Civ2 and in Civ3 so we can all be amazed at how sh|t out of luck I was. [/quote]

The defender only had about a 33% chance every round, the chances of winning 13 combat rounds in a row is nearing 1/infinity... actually it's .000055%, or one chance in 2 million... If he was fortified, I think that's +25% (is that ANYWHERE in the manual?) plus the .10 grassland bonus (when did GRASSLAND get a bonus??), so it may have been .0006%, or one chance in 167000...

I'm pretty sure it's a lot more difficult to happen in Civ2 then in Civ3.

In Civ2 the scenario you describe is a statistical impossibility.

And once again, if underdogs are made easlier to win, then battle tactics are not as important anymore, bad news for us warlike leaders

Some will argue then for micromanaged tactics, 10 to 1 advantages, etc. How dull and tedious...

Venger

[Venger]

Originally posted by Akka le Vil


It's exactly : 100/2^13, so 100/8192, so 0,0122 %.
Half of that for 14 rounds in a row

????

A 6 unit attacking a 3 unit gives the defender a 33% chance, so the chances are .33^13, not .5^13.

See my numbers in a post above...

Venger

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by Akka le Vil
It's exactly : 100/2^13, so 100/8192, so 0,0122 %.
Half of that for 14 rounds in a row

No, the odds of winning one round is 3.3 out of 9.3. (The defense gets a 10% bonus on grassland.) Thus it is (3.3/9.3)^13, right? Thus the odds are .00014%, I think.

[Venger]

Originally posted by zapperio
the chance of someone exaggerating on a open forum are, I'd say... 50/1.

He he, that's pretty damn funny!!!

Venger

[SuiteSisterMary]

The manual says sometimes a unit just gets lucky. Maybe this means there is a fixed chance of winning regardless of the odds?

I still say their pseudo-random number generator is fuxored; it has streaks out the yin-yang.

And I've watched things like four veteran horesemen bounce off of one(!) spearman fortified in a size 6 city, who takes no damage, or three veteran calvary bounce off of a hoplite fortified in a field.

[Venger]

Originally posted by SuiteSisterMary

I still say their pseudo-random number generator is fuxored; it has streaks out the yin-yang.

AMEN MY BROTHER. I will swear on my grave that the random generator is anything but random, it has outliers all OVER the place...

And I've watched things like four veteran horesemen bounce off of one(!) spearman fortified in a size 6 city, who takes no damage, or three veteran calvary bounce off of a hoplite fortified in a field.

Many of us have seen the streakiness of the combat engine. I'm convinced there is something rotten in Denmark...

Venger

[Akka]

Originally posted by Venger


????

A 6 unit attacking a 3 unit gives the defender a 33% chance, so the chances are .33^13, not .5^13.

See my numbers in a post above...

Venger

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS , my bad, I mixed a 2vs1 chance to win the round with a 1/2 chance...


:shame x2:
:shame exponential:
:shame x 5.10^10!:
:error : shame divide by 0:

[CyberGnu]

A question for the people who tried increasing the hitpoints of units... Doesn';t this mean that you will have to stare at your screen for AGES when you fight? I already detest waiting for two elite units slugging it out...