Useless colonies!

[player1]

Jungle, not a nice place for a city, but has gems.
So I build a colony there connercted with my cities.

Then comes an AI.
Hmm, another place outside borders, let we build citiy near those gems.
My colony dissapers, and gems are in hand of an AI.

What the worst, I am actually forced to make cities in poor locations with resouces, since it is the only way to prevent AI of taking my resouces.

[player1]

It would be nice if colonies would generate one tile borders.

Anyway it is strange to make 5 colonies near a cluster of gems.

[Robert]

colonies aren't bad because yours got captured once.
Like cities aren't a bad game concept either after yours were destroyed.

I've build quiet some colonies so far.
Most of them slightly outside my borders so I could get them back easily if the AI would show up (just put a city next to them within my borders)

[Mannamagnus]

Just build a city on top of the gems. The gems will stay but the jungle changes into grassland. Later you use a worker to clear the jungle and get extra shields.
Gems in jungles are a blessing in disguise!

[Akaoz]

I have to agree with player1 on this. Colonies are a good idea that when wrong somewhere...

The fact that they are automaticly assimilated combined with the way corruption works, makes it (imo) a bit to hard to get access to resources not found close to your empire.

-Alech

[Dis]

build and make cities? blasphemy.

why not conquer them

I admit this game is a conquerer game just as the others are. Sorry builders, Firaxis doesn't care about you .

I can't see a way to win without conquest. By win, I mean win the man's way- not some easy diplomatic victory that you can bribe.

[Robert]

later in the game, when the AI expansion has ceased,
colonies get evenmore usefull !

In fact civ3 works this way:

Expand
Develop
Colonize
Conquer

First you expand to get enough resources to develop and build an army.
Then you start developping your culture, science and your army.
When you've discovered the right science you search for the right resources and colonize them.

When you have the resources, you conquer your enemies

[player1]

This is was happening to several times.

From now, only colonies I build are those just near mine borders.

OK, you can clear jungles with horde of workers (more likely in ind. age)but why to have EXTRA CORRUPTION because of USELESS city.
This thing also happens on mountains & hills (you can't terraform those).

Anyway, I don't wan't, exept if I must (like now), to build such cites.
Only to take them culturaly or military (after AI clear jungles for me ).

Concept of colonies is BROKEN, because you will build city on every place insted of colony.

One tile border could be the SOLUTION.

[Dis]

I wonder why they didn't incorporate smac stuff in this game. I should create another thread on this.

But the smac border system was near perfect (except ai building cities near your borders pushing yours back).

I wonder if Brian Reynolds has a copyright on stuff he programmed . I find the resemblence of civ3 to civ1 to be an indication of this. Stuff in civ2 was completely dropped (combat being the best example).

Interesting.

[campmajor!]

Colonies ARE useful, but must be protected! So if you want to prevent the AI to build a city nearby, just send 8 good defenders to surround the colony and the problem is solved!

[Fidel]

Originally posted by campmajor!
Colonies ARE useful, but must be protected! So if you want to prevent the AI to build a city nearby, just send 8 good defenders to surround the colony and the problem is solved!

exactly! or simply block their path in any conceivable way....:0
this system of colonies also allows you to take them over from AI

[Robert]

player1: Concept of colonies is BROKEN

why do you say things like that without countering arguments made by people like me ? I have clearly explained how you can use clonies the best, and you just simple ignore my posts and put up things like I quoted above.

Again: the conept of borders / colonies isn't broken, but you need to know how to use it.

[player1]

The point is that the concept of colonies doesn't work like it is designed (or like Firaxis wanted at start).
Now, if there are workarounds, OK.

But, it's same as saying that since you know now to handle corruption by cutting trees, making poplation farms or super tax cities, that corruption is working the way it is intendend.

[player1]

And AI is ALWAYS expanding.
It never ceases.

But, if you put pressure on him, and prevent any type of expansion.
You can have your colonies.

At, least until is starts expanding againg, or you kill him.

But, personally I don't think that designers wanted that, as main use of colonies.

And to me, is it tiresome to go into WAR, every time AI want's to place his cities on your colonies.


This just isn't right.

[player1]

CyberShy, your aproach is OK.

But it doesn't mean that colonies don't need some kind of fix.

Just for playbalancing reasons.

This way colonies are just some sort of quick solution which last no more then 20-50 turns.

And rerly an option (AI just takes ALL LAND)

I think that they should be permanently usefull in places which are bad for cities.