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A Taste Of Honey - CLEAR evidence of the AI cheating

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  • A Taste Of Honey - CLEAR evidence of the AI cheating

    I'm not sure where this story/bug/strategic question should go, so I'll put it in here. To me, it is clear evidence that the AI in the game cheats, so clear it almost borders on proof. But you be the judge.

    I'll be the first to say that I'm not a brilliant Civ player- I could beat both Civ2 and SMAC on deity, but only with difficulty. After dominating my first game on Chieftan (as the Indians), I decided to try an ultramilitaristic strategy on a large map for my second game- enter the Aztecs (love those Jaggies!). I only picked 8 civs because I wanted space to explore.

    So, I start the game, produce a bunch of Jaguar Warriors and explore about for a bit. After a few dozen turns, and with a fledging 3-town empire, I stumble upon the hapless americans some 15 squares to the south of me. After meeting, greeting and techschanging, I park four Jaggies outside his capital, capture it, two settlers and another city, and (stupidly enough) raze them to the ground. Unfortunately, his last city seems stronger, and my two remaining Jaggies are killed off by his only offensive unit, an Archer. Oh well. I decide to leave it for the moment. Note that his only contact with me has been through my jaguar warriors. He's never been near my territory to the best of my knowledge.

    I now concentrate on exploration and building up my empire, increasing the number of cities to six. During one of these expansion phases, I send out what I thought was one of two spearmen from the capital (but which turned out to be the only one) to protect a new settlement from Malibu Barbie (set to Restless). So, my capital, pretty much at the center of my empire, is undefended- not a single unit is stationed in it. I'm not really paying attention at that moment, but it's important to understand for what happens next.

    About a dozen or so turns later, an American unit, an Archer, appears on my southern border. My immediate thought is "stupid AI! I've got six well-defended cities up here!", but I send a jag warrior to intercept him in a few turns. No Workers down there, so I thought myself safe. What happens? He marches on my capital, which I thought was well-defended, and razes it to the ground.

    Now, of course, this was entirely my fault. However, as well as showing my stupidity (leave undefended cities during wartime? What was I thinking?), I personally see it as evidence that the AI is cheating. What sensible player, unless he knows that he can do damage (which the AI supposedly didn't) sends up their single attacking unit to a much-superior civ? To me it seems as if it "knew" what was going on in a place it had never seen. Not even been near. I had basically uncovered and patrolled a radius of 5-10 squares from my civ's borders. Before this attack, the Americans had never been up there.

    Is this an example of the AI cheating? I think it is. Concievably, he could have stumbled up randomly to exactly the right spot at exactly the right time. Somehow I doubt it.
    Världsstad - Dom lokala genrenas vän
    Mick102, 102,3 Umeå, Måndagar 20-21

  • #2
    I don't know. Once he was in range, obviously he would have known whether or not it was defended, the same way that you do about the enemy (when units are on top)

    As to getting there at all, did you run into any other civs? Did you trade maps with them? Did you trade maps with the Americans?

    Cheers,

    Dr. Charm

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    • #3
      I believe this has been posted as a "bug" which will be fixed in the patch. As far as I know it wasn't meant that the AI would know which of your cities are the weakest, and will be fixed.

      Anyone who frequents this board should check the "bug" area out before proclaiming any sort or "AI cheats!" message as it may be something that will be fixed.

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      • #4
        "In Range" in the game is like two squares away. He went straight at it. No other civs, no map exchanges.
        Världsstad - Dom lokala genrenas vän
        Mick102, 102,3 Umeå, Måndagar 20-21

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        • #5
          It's not a cheat, per se. In all games that involve a map and units on it, be they RTS or TBS, it is well accepted that the AI knows the entire map and the location of every unit on it. It's the same thing that's behind the uselessness of submarines, since they're only undetectable to human players. It was this way in Civ II - so why complain about it in Civ III? The AI needs all the help it can get.

          -Sev

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          • #6
            Snap,

            In both Civ2 and Civ3, the AI plays with a "revealed map". He knows where your stuff is. The difference you are seeing comes from the better AI algorithms which emphasize attacking targets in sufficent force and concentrating on desirable targets.

            If they patch it, the AI will stil know where your stuff is...they'll just change the alsogorithms to make it less obvious.

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            • #7
              Oh...and Snap? Learn to beat deity in Civ2, ya big wimp!!!

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              • #8
                Seems AI cheating to me... The thing to do would be to test the AI: Make some game and be crazy enough to put an undefended city that's in the center of your territory. Anyone wanna sacrifice for Apolyton?

                (I would, but I don't have the game. University time and I'm out of games generally. Civ III later...)
                Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

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                • #9
                  I believe Soren Johnson said the AI would not know where your stuff is. However, Ozzie's reply might have hit the nail on the head- the AI might know where your weakest city is at any one time.
                  Världsstad - Dom lokala genrenas vän
                  Mick102, 102,3 Umeå, Måndagar 20-21

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                  • #10
                    Trifna, read the other posts in the thread. Comprende??

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Snapcase
                      I believe Soren Johnson said the AI would not know where your stuff is. However, Ozzie's reply might have hit the nail on the head- the AI might know where your weakest city is at any one time.
                      I kicked some nail ass, too...

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                      • #12
                        I should probably have saved my game, but I'm pretty sure I caught the Egyptians with more cities than was mathematically possible to build in the number of turns elapsed. I'll see if I can catch them again. Also, there have been instances of AI units "disappearing". Does the AI have a fetish for disbanding its own units?
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

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                        • #13
                          KH, that would be a good peice of evidence...

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                          • #14
                            The "undefended city taken by an AI unit that belined for it" situation has been discussed before here in the forums. Whether it is a "cheat" or not is irrevelant. I have accidently left a metropolis defended by just a cavalry unit, and the city was razed by an enemy cavalry that "must have known" it was lightly defended.

                            Lesson Learned: Always defend your cities, and always have some defensive reserves (have them wait until the end of the turn - press tab), for situations where you realize you messed up and depleted a garrison.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                              ... pretty sure I caught the Egyptians with more cities than was mathematically possible... Also, there have been instances of AI units "disappearing".
                              I've noticed these things also. I play Monarch/China and I've built cities on food squares producing a new settlers. Then, build a city 3-6 squares away on another food resource. After building 5 cities, i quit and viewed the timeline. The Russians had 10-11 cities. This isn't possible and you can't rush build settlers early in the game.

                              I've noticed my own units disapearing. A few times I've sent a settler to automatically goto a food square and eventually realize he never got there. He could have been captured, but by the time i realize he never got there, its a total mystery.

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