One result of this Civ3 debacle...

[Swissy]

...could be the final nail in the coffin for in-house beta testing. I have always said game designers cannot make an objective test of their own work. Many of the problems could have been discovered by objective beta testing. I am not saying "open" beta testing, just testing done by someone that does not have a personal stake in the results.

[yin26]

First, I agree.

Second, I think, however, these companies are just doing what the market will bear: Release a playable but buggy product and let 'the real world' do the beta testing for you. If sales suck, abandon the game. If sales are good, look at the beta test results your paying public is crawling over itself to give you and release some patches that don't require too many programming hours to implement. Leave the good stuff for an X-pack or sequel that approaches what the first release *should* have been. More $$$. Effectively, two or three or more products are sold for what the fans 'would like to have seen' in one.

While I think the words 'work in progress' as they apply to released games should be taken out back and shot, the average gamer is perhaps a step below a crack whore, so good luck getting them to change their relationships with their pimps.

[Rakki]

i suspect the trend in the future would be independent game testing rather than in house.

[Kc7mxo]

I suspect that the trend in the future will be game companies will continue to release buggy products as long as people buy them.

[Monoriu]

First, I love this game. I think this is the best game ever, and I definitely won't call it a debacle. But that's just me.

However, me too am surprised that they didn't catch some very obvious things, like air superiority bug, railroad description in civlopedia (I developed all the forest squares first in my first game because of that), city sorting, palace (the screen, but the building) bug, etc. These things are so obvious that a casual player would easily spot in his first game. I can't believe that professional game testers won't catch these and the only excuse is lousy testing.

[Blackadar1]

I'm so sick and tired of the AI cheating that I uninstalled the POS.

[yin26]

...the only excuse is lousy testing.

You might be surprised at how many of those issues they knew about before shipping. Perhaps all of them. This was a deadline issue. I'm sure the testers did a fine job (as you say, those are obvious mistakes).

[d_dudy]

if i wasn't in a pi$$y mood, then i wouldn't do it.....

Originally posted by yin26
Second, I think, however, these companies are just doing what the market will bear: Release a playable but buggy product and let 'the real world' do the beta testing for you. If sales suck, abandon the game. If sales are good, look at the beta test results your paying public is crawling over itself to give you and release some patches that don't require too many programming hours to implement. Leave the good stuff for an X-pack or sequel that approaches what the first release *should* have been. More $$$. Effectively, two or three or more products are sold for what the fans 'would like to have seen' in one.

it's called capitalism, if you don't like it, don't buy the game

it's not like the game with couse you injury and you need to be protected from the unscrupulous businessmen

[yin26]

Don't lecture me about Capitalism for Christ's sake. I know exactly what it is. How's your pimp?

[Alexander's Horse]

Re: if i wasn't in a pi$$y mood, then i wouldn't do it.....

Originally posted by d_dudy


it's called capitalism, if you don't like it, don't buy the game

it's not like the game with couse you injury and you need to be protected from the unscrupulous businessmen

I get sick to death of morons like you saying crap like this. There are such things as consumer protection laws and sooner or later companies like Infogames and Firaxis are going to get caught out by those laws. You cannot sell shoddy or faulty goods and then just say "that's capitalism." You are a fool if you put up with treatment like that. And its idiots like you who let them get away with it.

[Drake Tungsten]

How did Firaxis violate any consumer protection laws? I don't think shipping a game without MP is considered a crime...

[Venger]

No excuses

Firaxis has no excuses for not having a core of outside testers to evaluate their products. On this freaking board alone they could find 10 intelligent, intense gamers who could in 14 days have found every problem with the game and reported it prior to going gold.

What to look for in an independent tester:

1) Speak in complete sentences.
2) A flair for gaming.
3) A critical eye
4) The willingness to test cheap!

Hey, I meet all those requirements...fancy that!

Venger
P.S. I love setting my own requirements...

[Asharak]

While I would like to see more third-party beta testing of games, I can't honestly say the released product of CivIII upsets me that much. Yes, there are bugs, some of them rather obvious, and which should have been caught, but let's be objective. The list isn't that long.

Too many games are released with a list major bugs longer than Hitler's criminal record (so long as you get the idea, please don't flame me for the analogy). We've found several major issues, not dozens. I can deal with several, especially when the scale of the product is one is as vast as CivIII, and ESPECIALLY when the OVERALL quality of game is amazing.

These bugs are serious problems, granted, but nonetheless, I still enjoy the game -- immensely. I still stay up until 3 or 4 a.m. playing, and while corruption, and trespassing, and air superiority issues, ... etc. annoy me, I still call myself a Civ fan. So long as the patch fixes these issues, and so long as it comes out soon, I'm willing to give Firaxis, and the only development staff I've *trusted* for a decade, the benefit of the doubt -- maybe they should have done more public beta-testing, maybe they should have pushed the deadline back, maybe this and maybe that... but in the end, the bottom line is, maybe I'll go and play another turn.

[yin26]

My only worry here is what Infogrames will decide about the patching schedules. While Firaxis itself has been quite good about patching (yes, I said that), if Infogrames is running the show, we already know what they will be geared towards.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
How did Firaxis violate any consumer protection laws? I don't think shipping a game without MP is considered a crime...

Did I say anything about multiplayer?

The game is buggy - imagine if the music industry released CD's with tracks missing or the drummer not playing on track 5 etc. How long do you think they'd get away with it? Its the long suffering PC game consumers who are letting them do it now but that won't last forever.