Another cheap exploit (trade)

[dr.charm]

Many people think that making a nasty comment about someone's valid complaints is 'ironic'.

Dr. Charm

[Venger]

Control, control, you must learn control!

Originally posted by Ozymandous

Sorry flawed logic. Just because an apple is red and a crayon is red, a crayon is something to write with and a pencil is something you write with, does NOT mean that an apple is something you write with.

You are comparing inductive reasoning with the integrity of a mathematical system?

In other words, because A = B and B = C does not mean A = C.

Actually, in math, it kinda does. It kinda has to or the thing doesn't work. To use your pedantic example, if an Apple's color (A)is the same as a crayon's color (B), and a crayon's color (B) is red (C), then, yes captain IntroToLogic, an Apple's color (A) is red (C).

Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts...

You're pointing to one bug in the game where a variable overflowed and acting as if the whole game is broken.

THE WHOLE GAME IS BROKEN. Freaking please dude, in addition to bad examples of intro to logic 101 you also have a gift for hyperbole. Where else does the variable overflow? Is it only at that one place? If you weighed 140 pounds but had a scale that said 160 when you got on it, would you think it accurate at every other weight? This is the problem - we know it has a serious bug - and others - as such it's integrity is compromised. Until they can explain the bugs or get them fixed, you should view that system as unreliable.

This is a logical fallacy.

Woohoo! On to page two of the logic handbook now...

Example: In Moo2, if you had over 32,000 science per turn you reverted to that much in NEGATIVE science. Did this mean that the whole game was broken? Nope, it just means they had the wrong variable type in there.

How do you know what the bug is? The game also turns down 100 gold offered for 10. Is that a variable bug too?

This does not mean the entire game is broken. Now then, if you really want to see a broken game go get Diablo2 & it's expansion pack and then apply their patch, you'll have a game that's still broken at it's essence, which does not appear to be the case with Civ3.

This part is clearly broken. God you flat earthers just love the Emperor's new clothes...

Venger

[nato]

Chaz I played around on deity yesterday and got to start within view of another civ, In turn one I spotted :
1 scout, 2 archers, 1 warrior, 1 settler and 2 workers leave his newly founded city. Add another 2+ units which left in a direction where I couldn't see them and it's very likely the AI got 3 settlers off the bat.

I would just like clarification ... you were in view of his capitol at the very start of the game, and all those units came out on the very first turn? Like no exageration?

If so that is quite a help for the deity AI, well beyond production and gold bonuses, but several actual units.

Man with 2 archers and 1 warrior by your totally undefended and only city ... hope he was India!

[zapperio]

The only thing that seems to be broken around here is your sense of perspective mr. venger.

Zap

[dr.charm]

Venger seems to be one of the few people here *with* perspective. There are two camps apparently: The 'My favourite little thing isn't in the game, it's irreperably broken, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT' crowd; and the 'It doesn't matter if air superiority doesn't work, if you think that it should, you obviously think that the game totally sucks and just want to try and damage its reputation' crowd.

It would be a great if *more* people were like Venger in fact. The game is good, *very* good in fact, but there *are* Firaxis-acknowledged problems with it, one of them being air superiority.

Cheers,

Dr. Charm

[Death's Toe]

"That is illogical, Jim."

/ot

Originally posted by Ozymandous

In other words, because A = B and B = C does not mean A = C.

Holy sweet jesus, I can't believe you actually posted this!?!? Are you serious?

If A = B, and B = C, then A MUST = C. There is NO way around this, at ALL. This is pure logic, plain and simple.



/ot

[zapperio]

Originally posted by dr.charm
Venger seems to be one of the few people here *with* perspective. There are two camps apparently: The 'My favourite little thing isn't in the game, it's irreperably broken, BOYCOTT, BOYCOTT' crowd; and the 'It doesn't matter if air superiority doesn't work, if you think that it should, you obviously think that the game totally sucks and just want to try and damage its reputation' crowd.

Ok, there are two people here with broken perspective. You seem to have a competitor in the hyperbole dept., venger.

Zap

[inca911]

Is simple appreciation that difficult?

Hiya! I, for one, appreciate your posting of this exploit in the game and I think it does need to be closed by Firaxis in the patch. I also believe that no single person in this forum is qualified to make judgements that the entire game is broken nor is there any one person in this forum who's opinion is more valid than everyone else's (despite several posts by many others that seem to indicate their viewpoints are superior). Disagreeing with a point is certainly within everyone's individual rights and is to be expected for many issues. However, it would better serve the overall quality of the forum if such disagreements could be carried out more diplomatically. Perhaps we just have too many Civ3 warmongers, but a rational discourse should not be this difficult. So, thanks for the loophole and those of us who don't want to use it will not do so and hopefully Firaxis will tie up that loose end in the patch.

[GodSpawn]

Is it not the case, then, that the "bug" only occurs if you have changed a setting in the editor? At least, that's how I read it.

Originally posted by RTodd
Man I need some sleep....found that I changed that particular requirement in the editor.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[zapperio]

I haven't tested it myself but Sunshine reported a different bug at the beginning of the thread and I understand it is unrelated to setting the requirements for strat resources in the editor. So it is still outstanding issue.

Zap

[dr.charm]

No, perspective is taking the middle line, which is what I've been doing, and (at least in this thread) what Venger has been doing. Others seem to think that a minor exploit (that you don't have to use) ruins the game, and others that air superiority is but a minor advantage to give to the AI.

Cheers,

Dr. Charm

P.S. Where in Halifax? I'm from Antigonish, though living in NYC.

[zapperio]

Originally posted by dr.charm
P.S. Where in Halifax? I'm from Antigonish, though living in NYC.

I just couldn't posit myself with either option you presented and I've been wrangling with Vanger over the issue in other threads and in my experience he wouldn't know a middle line if you ran it through him, so...

I'm from Bedford. Well actually I'm Icelandic but I live in Bedford.

Saay, I know someone in NYC you wouldn't happen to know...

Zap

[dr.charm]

Heck, I could probably name a random person in NS, and you'd have a better chance of knowing *them*

I don't agree with everything that Venger says, but on this thread, I think he's being quite reasonable, particularily compared to the A=B=C thing which is just weird

Cheers,

Dr. Charm

[fanatic civver]

>How do you know what the bug is?

Firaxis already stated that it is a variable overflow bug...

>THE WHOLE GAME IS BROKEN.

Buggy? Yes. Broken? Only time will tell. Will civ 3 stand the test of time?

[sunshine]

Well, to me the obvious fix to the exploit I started this thread with is to make the trade pacts last for 20 years. Just like the manual and the civilopedia says they do. If you are unable to produce said item, the ai doesn't receive it- but if, in the course of that twenty years, you become able to produce said item again, the ai gets the surplus. And if you traded for gold/turn, you shouldn't receive that unless the ai gets their resource.

In other words, make trade work like trade.

A possible addendum would be to make the counter stop incrementing when the trade good is unavailable.

MarkG, if you haven't had a situation in which the ai is ahead of you in tech, maybe you should play on a higher difficulty level? If you've managed to beat the ai in tech research on deity without using an exploit I really want to hear from you.