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City Governor AI Problems- ATTn: soren johnson

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  • City Governor AI Problems- ATTn: soren johnson

    There was one point that the people at the Soren Johnson AI chat did not get to ask him. and that is what looks to be a problem with the City Governer AI

    the problem has been documented by myself and others in this thread


    As an appendix to that thread, the problem with the Civ governor building Longbowman is that it only builds this unit in times of war. when I made peace, my city governers immediately switched to swordsmen. This may be a clue to the apparentl problem. My most advanced unit is the riflemen, and I was under the impression the intelligent agent associated with the City governor AI would recognize my build order (all riflemen) and learn from it, but apparently, it has either no capacity to learn, nor does it have a capacity to realize the swordsmen and the longbowmen are outdated.

    This discussion is of course complicated by the different combinations of units available to us depending on the civilization we chose and the resources available to us. In my case, i have no access to horses, so knights and cavalry are out of the picture and I'm playing the Americas, so the unique unit is out of the picture at this point of the game.

    In a previos game, I did have access to horses and thus knights and the city governer accurately predicted that building knights was the way to go when I was at war with a rival Civ. This may provide further clue as to the underlying bug/problem with the city governor.

    Or perhaps they don't learn/ or aren't intelligent at all? I'm pretty sure that the City governors no longer follow build orders so it must be something else....


    An official response and comments as to what may be behind this problem, or our perception that there is a problem (afterall, there may not be a problem at all) would be appreciated. And to the Firaxis team, if you need me to send my .SAV file to you guys for analysis, give me a holler at dnsy@sfu.ca

    Thanks.
    Last edited by dexters; November 9, 2001, 13:13.
    AI:C3C Debug Game Report (Part1) :C3C Debug Game Report (Part2)
    Strategy:The Machiavellian Doctrine
    Visit my WebsiteMonkey Dew

  • #2
    bump
    AI:C3C Debug Game Report (Part1) :C3C Debug Game Report (Part2)
    Strategy:The Machiavellian Doctrine
    Visit my WebsiteMonkey Dew

    Comment


    • #3
      I must not be hiring very good governers, becasue, as I finish up my game in the mid 2020's, the governers still want to build privateers. And I have battleships, carriers, and Aegis cruisers available. Not only that, but every time they suggested to build one, I told them not to build that, but to build something else. So shouldn't they be learning that I don't wan them building privateers?
      DarkMatter

      As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy.
      -Christopher Dawson, The Judgment of Nations, 1942

      Comment


      • #4
        We should have the option to summarily execute one of the governors from a major city to put the rest of thme in-line

        Well put darkmatter. You're not the only one experiencing this problem. so yes, the question still stands.

        wth is happening!
        AI:C3C Debug Game Report (Part1) :C3C Debug Game Report (Part2)
        Strategy:The Machiavellian Doctrine
        Visit my WebsiteMonkey Dew

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dexters
          We should have the option to summarily execute one of the governors from a major city to put the rest of thme in-line
          LOL dexters ...

          Yes, I had the same weird behavior from my governor.
          During my game, I was at a peaceful time, year 1980, modern age, I had adv armor and mech inf, all I needed was to accelerate my research towards the spaceship.
          I ordered my governor to NOT produce ANY units only city improvements. And still he insisted on creating Privateers on several of my coastal cities. Even if I manually changed the current production to something else, after production is done the next item is - that's right, Privateer ....

          If there is a learning system hidden in his thick AI skull, he sure doesn't use it ...

          Comment


          • #6
            Exactly

            Even more frustrating is when you set the default to NEVER build ANY ground, air or naval units (basically only want buildings) in EVERY city (not just on the continent but EVERY one -- double check that the setting is still set like 5 times)... and one city always seems to want to build a naval or ground unit! In one game, a city I captured way earlier refused to listen to my instructions and always switched to iron clads after finishing a building. In another game, my capitol refused to listen, and tried to pump out chariots every chance it got!

            arrgghhh!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Flash70


              LOL dexters ...

              Yes, I had the same weird behavior from my governor.
              During my game, I was at a peaceful time, year 1980, modern age, I had adv armor and mech inf, all I needed was to accelerate my research towards the spaceship.
              I ordered my governor to NOT produce ANY units only city improvements. And still he insisted on creating Privateers on several of my coastal cities. Even if I manually changed the current production to something else, after production is done the next item is - that's right, Privateer ....

              If there is a learning system hidden in his thick AI skull, he sure doesn't use it ...
              If you had a save game showing this behavior that you could post, I would greatly appreciate it...
              - What's that?
              - It's a cannon fuse.
              - What's it for?
              - It's for my cannon.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis


                If you had a save game showing this behavior that you could post, I would greatly appreciate it...
                No Problem, here you go ...

                One of the coastal cities that gave me these problems is called Byzantium. You can easly re-create the problem there.

                Regards,
                Flash70
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  Soren, Here's my save file as well since I started this thread :P

                  Basically, the City Governors is showing the same behavior everyone is having problem with.

                  It a) does not seem to learn from our actions
                  b) has a fetish for outdated units

                  Anyways, I know you guys are getting a lot of flack for the bugs and the like, but let me tell you that Civilization 3 is far superior to the previous games i've played, even with the bugs. It is an experience unlike any other.

                  Thanks for listening.
                  Attached Files
                  AI:C3C Debug Game Report (Part1) :C3C Debug Game Report (Part2)
                  Strategy:The Machiavellian Doctrine
                  Visit my WebsiteMonkey Dew

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the reviewer for joystick101.org hit it on the head: he wasn't sure what to make of it, as he was a bit disturbed that the first time to play civIII lasted 8-10 hours.
                    DarkMatter

                    As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy.
                    -Christopher Dawson, The Judgment of Nations, 1942

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I get the same thing. Not only do the govs ignore orders to build no units, only improvements, they build outdated ones at that. Why, with mechanized infantry and tanks available, are they still willing and able to build longbowmen and swordsmen? I don't see the U.S. Army of 2001 putting in orders for swords and muskets!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I noticed this too. I'd have the governors queing up swordsmen instead of riflemen.

                        PS - Hunt Valley, that's the name of one of the last American city names. Now I'm not surprised at not knowing it.
                        Soren Johnson Firaxis FIRAXIS
                        Hunt Valley, MD

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dexters
                          Soren, Here's my save file as well since I started this thread :P

                          Basically, the City Governors is showing the same behavior everyone is having problem with.

                          It a) does not seem to learn from our actions
                          b) has a fetish for outdated units

                          Anyways, I know you guys are getting a lot of flack for the bugs and the like, but let me tell you that Civilization 3 is far superior to the previous games i've played, even with the bugs. It is an experience unlike any other.

                          Thanks for listening.
                          I am assuming that your issue in this situation with the city governors is that they are recommending building swordsmen instead of riflemen. The reason for that is that you have set the governor to often produce offensive units and never produce defensive units. An "offensive" unit is one which has an offense value higher than its defense value (like a swordsman...) A "defensive" unit is one which has a defensive value higher than its offense value (like a rifleman...) So essentially, by telling the governor to never build defensive units, it was unable to ever suggest building riflemen (and because you didn't have horses, it couldn't suggest knights or cavalry either...)

                          Does that make sense? We probably should have been clearer defining exactly what "offensive" and "defensive" units meant...
                          - What's that?
                          - It's a cannon fuse.
                          - What's it for?
                          - It's for my cannon.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            BUT, I have my governors in "ALL CITIES" set to produce defensive/offensive/etc. Units "NEVER"... yet they still "suggest" it... I had guessed that suggesting and auto-production were different, but it is still annoying. Even after I constantly change it from whatever-unit to WEALTH, the AI never "learns". Also, why they suggest privateers over destroyers I have no clue... there really needs an ability to mark units as "obsolete" in the editor.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              IMHO, the easiest solution to the problem would be a switch to turn governors off. When I take the time to queue a half-dozen different improvements in each individual city, the AI shouldn't go second-guessing me.

                              Even if the AI learned as well as a human, I'd probably still leave it turned off. Heck, I've played "Axis and Allies" every weekend for years, and my friends still can't predict what I'll want to build on any given turn; I don't think a Civ-level AI governor can realistically hope to be useful.

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