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  • Im dissapointed

    When I bought the game i thought i was going to get a game with many more things then it came with. Alpha Centauri had so many cool features. You could raise lower terrain. You could terraform water and you had many more things you could do with the terain. The terrain in Alpha centauri seemed more realistic with the way it moved up and down. They could have at least come to a midway point in terms of the terrain. Alpha centauri had a excelent council system but what did Civ3 come with. You could build the UN and win thats it. In alpha centuari you had movies for wonders, quotes for improvments and text for advances now all you get is a small upgrade for your palace. Also couldn't they have found some way to improve the governments. Instead of making the Governments more distinct they made them so similar that there are only two choices in the late game and in the early game you just change as they come along. Alpha centuari had sides that were very distinct and had distinct advantages and disadvantages. In Civ3 you only have minor advantages and disadvantages that many sides share. And espionoge now seems to take a back seat. You can't steal units from people which gave a reason to gather large amounts money. It isn't a big deal that the took away the unit builder but you should have some options. If you don't have Iron but want to build a swords man why couldn't you build a bronze swords man. And what about all the special abilities you could put on units it seems they stripped the game down to make it compatible for ancient times.

    Now im not going to say it is a terrible game it deserves a 5 out of 10. The trade system is well done but it doesn't allow you to trade units with other people and the enemy civilizations are completly unreasonable asking for Techs just for a world map. I also wonder why they bothered giving you the option of buying cities since the AI will never let you buy one unless you give them something which i have yet to achieve.
    Culture is good but the effects aren't apparent to me since creating a powerful culture just to take over a city really isn't possible and winning through culture requires you to expand so much early on that you could easily win any way you want.
    Resources seem to be the best improvment. I have to give them Kudos for it. It works great and it adds a great level of strategy to the game. Over all to me though the game seems to be a quickly slapped together game that only seems great because of its near flawless balancing.

    To sum it up if they just worked on Alpha Centauri and fixed every problem changed the Graphics,altered some things and put in the improvments of Civ3 They would have made a much supeior game then this stripped down shell.
    "If you steal someones signature and they don't know it is it stealing" - My Brother

  • #2
    I think many people would be complaining if they put in the unit lab instead of the preconfiged units. After all this is civ, not SMAC. Played civ before ? It seporates the infanty and the fast units by not having a disign lab.

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    • #3
      Actually, I think that it's good you can't terraform land(ala CTP2), as you can't in real life. And look at the governments we have today: communism, democracy, republic and monarchy. Everything is present here. Plus, it's not true that late governments are all the same. Try to play under communism. You'll get so screwed with corruption that an option of having free support units won't make any sence. And yes, it's not some futuristic alpha centaura, it's Civilization!!!

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      • #4
        what do you mean can't terraform? Panama Canal? Suez? I'm living next to a man-made lake right now...?

        And there are many more kinds of government in the world today...

        How would you describe the government of Iran?
        "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
        "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
        "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

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        • #5
          Suez canal is not something you really terraform. Tell me at least 1 case when tundra was terraformed into grassland. Or desert competely terraformed at again, grassland.

          How would you describe the government of Iran?
          Ok, Iran is Repblic.(Muslim Republic)

          PS and tell me names of those MANY MORE governments today.

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          • #6
            Well, he has a point in a sense. Civ3 is kinda SMAC-lite. With SMAC there was a lot that could be done as there was no historic issue.

            So, for SMAC fans, Civ3 is sorta a step backwards. I was hoping that Civ3 would be much more detailed in a lot of ways than Civ2. We don't really have that as I can see at this point.

            There are some improvements and I think it's far too early to write Civ3 off. I have to play more before I do that, but the slowdown thing is frustrating.

            Comment


            • #7
              What do you mean by terraform, I thought you meant how we can raise and lower the terrain like in SMAC by moving large amounts of earth??

              Tundra: yes you are right this should be out....

              BUT desert...north of Beijing china there is a massive desert reclaimation project going on right now.

              There are many differences between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the basic definition of a republic:

              1) The first or second most important political leader is not elected by the people; he is a religious leader (the Ayatollah)

              2) An Islamic Republic's law is Sharia law, many important laws are not created by an elected legislature or interpreted by courts accountable to the legislature. Many 'religious' laws are created, enforced, and interpreted by religious courts who are not accountable to elected officials.

              Iran is (partially) a Theocracy or Fundamentalism in Civ 2 terms.

              Also:
              How to show the difference between the 'direct' democracy of Athens and todays elected officials? They aren't the same.

              The Ancient Republics and Modern Republics are different because of Constitutions (which guard the rights of the minority) . Rome had no constitution.

              Xerxes Oriental Despotism a much different form of government than Hitler's Totalitarian Fascism.

              Socialist government in Sweden was a lot different than in the Soviet Union.

              There are many, many different types of government possible, even in the world today...

              The Dragon-King of the Himalayan kingdom of Bhutan is considered a divinity by his people. His Divine Right monarchy is very different from the Constitutional Monarchy of Japan, UK, or Canada....and the Sultanates of Islamic countries like Oman and Saudi Arabia are very different again.

              The United Arab Emirates are ruled by an Oligarchy or Aristocracy of unelected tribal sheiks, who elect the President from themselves.

              Governments I would add with the editor:
              Constitutional Republic, Ancient Republic, Ancient Democracy, Theocracy, Absolute Monarchy (Louis XIV), Constitutional Monarchy, Totalitarianism, Socialism, Sultanate, Aristocracy/Oligarchy, Oriental Despotism, Divine Right Monarchy, and more...

              And the imaginative ones that don't exist (or were very small):
              Anarchist-Syndicalist Commune, Deep Ecology, Technocracy, Plutocracy, purely Military Dictatorship (like ancient Sparta), electronic direct democracy, Computer Dictatorship, Anarchist-Individualist, Platonic Philosopher-Kingship, True Aristocracy/Meritocracy..
              "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
              "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
              "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ok Seeker, you changed my mind about governments. My appologies.

                and yes, by terraform I meant climatic changes. BTW They(China) can change the desrt to plains for a while, but without big climatic change it won't last for long.

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                • #9
                  As for man-made lakes and rivers, I think something could have been done there. You could irrigate from them or something. And canals could have been put in there so you could move naval units between continents, only they would be very expensive to build and would take a long time (The Seuz Canal - it plunged Egypt into poverty by building it and then the Poms took over Egypt because of it, so's they never got their money back)

                  I'll probably change my mind once I play the game, but until then that's my view on it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just because its not like SMAC doesn't mean it sucks..... they are two different games.
                    Leonid

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                    • #11
                      There where many things in SMAC that could have added much to CIV3.

                      The biggest one is the councel and the UN wonder.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Seeker
                        BUT desert...north of Beijing china there is a massive desert reclaimation project going on right now.


                        I had the misfortune to work on this project as an undergrad that attempted to measure the shrinkage of the Aural Sea in the former Soviet Union. This of course was due to an irrigation project (the diversion of two rivers). Worst case scenario happened. The land they wanted to make fertile didn't. As the sea receded, the salts formed a fine powder, which blew into the air. Contributing to increasing throat cancer and asthma rates among the regional population (after they were devastated by the loss of the fishing economy as the salinity of the sea shot up killing off the fish). Finally, the winds carried this salt powder as far away as Georgia (and I don't mean the one north of Florida), reducing the fertility of farmlands there.

                        Desert reclamation project? It'll turn out to be a desert expansion project. No, and I mean no, attempt at large scale environmental engineering has ever yielded a favorabe result. None. And you can expand the desert in Civ3. Just create too much pollution and don't clean it up. Global warming does the rest.
                        - "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
                        - I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
                        - "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Seeker
                          Governments I would add with the editor:
                          Constitutional Republic, Ancient Republic, Ancient Democracy, Theocracy, Absolute Monarchy (Louis XIV), Constitutional Monarchy, Totalitarianism, Socialism, Sultanate, Aristocracy/Oligarchy, Oriental Despotism, Divine Right Monarchy, and more...

                          And the imaginative ones that don't exist (or were very small):
                          Anarchist-Syndicalist Commune, Deep Ecology, Technocracy, Plutocracy, purely Military Dictatorship (like ancient Sparta), electronic direct democracy, Computer Dictatorship, Anarchist-Individualist, Platonic Philosopher-Kingship, True Aristocracy/Meritocracy..
                          Interesting.

                          Do you have any website links that go into indepth explainations of these real and fictional goverments?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Totalitarianism, isn't really a government in and of itself. Fasicm under hitler was totalitarian , Communism under Stalin was totalitarian. They could not be any more ideologically and diametricaly opposed forms of government (fascism=extreme right wing, communism=extreme left wing) yet they were both totalitarian.



                            Fascism and Communism are two different government styles. Can't merge them and just say "Totalitarian" government.

                            Leonid

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                            • #15
                              Communism and Fascism are very different in aims and slightly different in means, but in the end they have basically the same results. Socialisms very different though

                              The Romans had as much of a Constitution as the UK does, IE very little(well actually the UK does have a constitution, it just has very little to do with what actually happens), and Rome did have some laws and very strict customs concerning the government of the Republic. The republic was breaking down by the time Caesar, but they were there.

                              The main difference between the Athenian Democracy and todays Democracies is that today we actually live in Republics whereas Athens was a Democracy (albeit a very exclusive one)

                              Edit: The difference between Fascism and Communism is like the difference between a Christian Fundamentalism and an Islamic Fundamentalism, very little

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