copyright limitations related to CTP

[TCO]

To what extent are (were) the Civ3 designers constrained from copying things from CTP? I.e. both concepts and specific items (wonders, etc.)

[Crouchback]

It was the otherway round, hence CTP2 had to drop "Civilization" from the title and Activision couldn't use any of the Civ2 wonders in their products. The original licence was owned by Microprose when Sid was over there, who were bought by Hasbro who brought in Sid's latest company Firaxis, before they succumbed to Infogrames. It made CTP rather strange, full of unknown wonders and odd units.

David

[Earthling7]

The Pennicilin would be a great minor wonder and the Hagia Sophia is a wonder by any standards. Still, I wonder, how can you copyright the Pyramids?

[Dauphin]

Activision couldn't use any of the Civ2 wonders in their products

I still don't get that. Key wonders such as the seven wonders of the world should not have been copyrighted. I understand that the effects and the implementation may be required to be different. But Sid did not own the rights to the wonders of the ancient world. (Sorry to disappoint a lot of you )

[Mars]

It makes me think that they did a good job for the limitations imposed on them. (fans calling it crap cuz sid didn't make it, complexity, limitations on names and coming up with new units) you try making a good game with all that against you

[Crouchback]

Originally posted by Big Crunch

Activision couldn't use any of the Civ2 wonders in their products

I still don't get that. Key wonders such as the seven wonders of the world should not have been copyrighted. I understand that the effects and the implementation may be required to be different. But Sid did not own the rights to the wonders of the ancient world. (Sorry to disappoint a lot of you )

No, Mircroprose owned the civilization name and the "look and feel" of the first two games. There was a large court battle which got settled out of court just before the release of C:CTP1 that allowed Activision to use the civilization on the first game but not the second and prevented them from using the same wonders amongst other things.

David

[Earthling7]

Originally posted by Mars
It makes me think that they did a good job for the limitations imposed on them. (fans calling it crap cuz sid didn't make it, complexity, limitations on names and coming up with new units) you try making a good game with all that against you

hear, hear... Right you are. It's sad, really. I say, if Sid retires from Civ after this one, allow others to try. Let's hope that CtP3 is good. I'd buy it if the feedback was positive.

[Grumbold]

You'd have to study the contractual fine print to know what the exact limitations were. If hundreds of companies can come up with seemingly identical RTS games I'd be surprised if Microprose could put a copyright on the Pyramids if the basic idea of 'Wonders' was allowed to be duplicated. CtP needed to be a bit different to justify a new game. In the same way CtP did not invent anything for their game except a bit of future tech so I don't see how they could prevent Firaxis using stuff like clerics or army stacks if they wanted to.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Earthling7

hear, hear... Right you are. It's sad, really. I say, if Sid retires from Civ after this one, allow others to try. Let's hope that CtP3 is good. I'd buy it if the feedback was positive.

I really doubt there will be a CTP3 given the poor sales and orphaning of CTP2. Unfortunate really, but there you have it. And frankly, I bet Sid want to do non-civ projects but keeps getting pulled back in. Its guaranteed money in the bank. Who wants a Dinosaur game anyway?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wonders were not copyrighted by Microprose as a result of the deal.

[MarkG]

activision didnt loose the civilization title for ctp2

it's just the original deal with microprose was for one game only, and that was civ:ctp

no official has made any mention on design limitations. in fact, the ctp team was quite into development when the deal was made. activision was making a civ game anyway

[Dida]

Originally posted by Crouchback
It made CTP rather strange, full of unknown wonders and odd units.

David

I think that's a plus. A new game should have some new elements in it.

[TCO]

Originally posted by MarkG


no official has made any mention on design limitations.

There was a "lack of announcements" but not an announcement that there were no design limits. Capiche, Marky Mark?

[Simpleton]

Originally posted by Mars
It makes me think that they did a good job for the limitations imposed on them.

I can't agree here. The people who made CTP 1 & 2 didn't fail because of limitation they failed because they did bit off more than they could chew. The designers seemed to think that just by adding sea/space colonies, more techs, more wonders, more units that the game would just fall into place and be great. They obviously didn't realize how hard it is to blend all the elements of a game to make it great. In the end, the CTP series represented a lot of good ideas thrown together haphazardly to make a mess.

(fans calling it crap cuz sid didn't make it, complexity, limitations on names and coming up with new units)

I don't remember anyone saying it was crap because Sid never made it. I do remember people saying IF Sid had made CTP1 or 2 the game wouldn't have been crap or perhaps more rightly, not as crappy.
As far as CTP 1 and 2 being more complex it was the designers were the ones who made the CTP series this wasy. It's their fault if they couldn't pull it off. As far as coming up with new units Sid did it in Civ1. Brian Reynolds did it in Civ2 and SMAC. They didn't have any trouble. Why did the designers of CTP1/2 find this such a tough task???????

you try making a good game with all that against you

If they were so many "perceived" barriers to making a GOOD game why did they do it? Why start unless your going to make a GOOD game? I think they started out with a lot of grand ideas but realized too late that the game would not work as hoped but decided to push it out the door anyway (shame on them) with the PR blazing. They didn't have anything against them the design team/game company just lacked the vision and commitment to make it work.

I think the CTP 1 and 2 games and crew deserved every criticism aimed at them. They pumped up these games as being spectacular when they knew they couldn't deliver. Besides, with the game prices as high as they are today and PR flying like it does the game buyer has every right to trash a company/design team that doesn't deliver!

PS: don't know what happened with the "quotes" but hopefully this makes sense.

[cassembler]

Copyright Laws

Yeah copyright laws are kinda fuzzy- I'm sure both sides have "cosen their battles" so to speak about what to "borrow" form each other.

I could see how one could copyright a type of unit in a game, though I think they'd have to be pretty damn unique... Like the Starship Enterprise, unique to Star Trek (I think).

But seriously, how many games have goblins or dwarves?
"The Pyramids" probably couldn't be copyrighted, though "Leonardo's Workshop" probably can be, because it's a created title to something...

Any laywers in the forum?