INTERESTING New Screenshots with ICS implications

[Dry]

Originally posted by korn469
first pic: size 6 city, size 20 foodbox
second pic: size 12 city, size 40 foodbox

I see another difference: Government.
Despotism: size 20 foodbox
Republic: size 40 foodbox

I think we need more screenshots to be sure...

[Dry]

Ok, I went to different screenshot sites and saw some 'usual' foodbox cities, so here is my opinion.

I think those screenshots were made while 'cheating' mode was on:
take a 1 (2) size city, enter cheat, make it a 4 (12) size city, the foodbox is not updated -> snapshot !!

[Fidel]

why would anyone do that for a promo shot?

[albiedamned]

Someone mentioned the curious absense of any colonies in these screenshots, and questioned whether that might mean that colonies are not actually that useful. We have to remember that these screenshots were generated by someone at GameSpot who got an early copy of the game and is playing it for the purpose of reporting on it. So maybe that person (or persons) was just trying to muddle through things as quickly as possible and didn't bother to build any colonies (or didn't even realize that option existed). We'll never know, but I don't think the absence of colonies in these screenshots should lead us to any conclusions about their usefulness. Personally, I am very intrigued by the strategy of building a colony in a location where you would never think to put a city due to bad terrain, in order to harvest a resource.

As for the food box being only 20 instead of 40, someone mentioned government type as a possible explanation. Here are two other possibilities: they built the Pyramids somewhere, and granaries are now represented by just showing the food box as size 20 instead of size 40 with a line through it halfway. Of course I don't know if the effect of the Pyramids (granary in each city) is the same as it was in Civ2. Another explanation might be that they are playing on the easiest difficulty level, and on this level the growth rules are relaxed. We have confirmed that the game cheats for the player on the lower levels, so maybe this is an example of that.

[Ozymandous]

Hmm, one thing about the "just build a granery" thought is that graineries seem to cost TWICE what a settler cost's. If a settler seems to cost 60 shields than a grainery seems to cost 120 shields. Now I know 120 shields might not be that much later in the game but early on it's comparible to building half a wonder (or used to be).

Maybe they tried to limit ICS by causing graineries to be mucho expensive.

I'll admit I am/was confused by the city being size 4 yet not starving with only two food "bundles" being harvested. Maybe each population point only requires 1/2 a "bundle" to use? This would account for the size 4 city not starving, but if so this would be very, very bad.

One hopeful note is this screen shot:

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/screens/0,10865,2818313-2,00.html

If you look at the listing of the cities food production and compare it to the number of citizens you'll notice the "red" (assuming red is consumed food) number still equals each population point X2. This means that each pop point still does require two food, and you'll also notice that Delhi now has 2 population and is eating 4 food.

Weird, but I guess everyone will have to wait to get the game to see what's going on.

[albiedamned]

Forgot to mention that I definitely agree that the people in Madras should be starving. Clearly only the city square is being worked, so with pop 4 and only 2 food coming in they should be negative 6 food per turn. That doesn't seem to be represented anywhere on this screen, so that is a mystery. Perhaps someone from Firaxis will enlighten us today.

The citizen on the far right has a smiley face under her, so she almost has to be an entertainer. The other three are angry I suspect. Perhaps this is an example of the new conquered city effect, where the citizens don't cooperate. Maybe these people refuse to work, and that's why no city squares are being worked. Hmmm. . .

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Ozymandous
I'll admit I am/was confused by the city being size 4 yet not starving with only two food "bundles" being harvested. Maybe each population point only requires 1/2 a "bundle" to use? This would account for the size 4 city not starving, but if so this would be very, very bad.

My guess: the 'hostile' population of a lately conquered city not only refuses to work tiles inside the city radius (this is pretty obvious from the screenshot), but also doesn´t require food.

[N35t0r]

About the food, entertainer, and food box:

If you check, the city needs only 2 food per turn. (it says zero growth, not shortfall or something) There is one entertainer, (the thing below is a happy face, you will recognise it beside the temple icon on other city views. If the 2 food are feeding the entertainer, and the city would count as a size one city, making the 20 food box the box for a size one city.

[korn469]

Dry

good pick up on the government types, so food box size is either dependent on city size, being 20 food until hospitals and being 40 food after that, or food box size is dependent on government, also besides those requirements foodbox size might also be effected by difficulty level...all of which seem quite plausible

though i really do not think that the gamespot pictures were made in cheat mode, because it is either a late beta of the game or more likely a gold copy, and as Dan Magaha stated, civ3 doesn't have a cheat menu

albiedamned

if Pyramids do still act as granary in each city, then it would have done the granary split like in the other shots, because granaries don't cut food in half, it just saves half of your food

Ozymandous, albiedamned, lockstep, HsFB

well as you can see in Ozymandous's screenshot, all citizens should eat two food, even the newly conquered Indian civilians (look at Madras and Deli)...as to why the population isn't starving in that one screen shot in Madras, i'm not sure but they should be

also i don't think that the presence of nationals from another civ would make the city act like it has a lower population

it would be helpful if someone could clear this up though

[Comrade Tribune]

Gentlemen, take another look at this screenshot: It is truly mysterious!

First of all, I see three happy women and an entertainer here. Why are they happy? They are starving to death at this very moment. The food box is empty, and not near enough food is being produced.

Even if they were not starving to death, they shouldn´t be happy with just one entertainer.

Furthermore, where are these people? They are not working the city tiles, nor are they specialists, so what are they actually doing?

I don´t understand this screen at all.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by korn469
Ozymandous, albiedamned, lockstep, HsFB

well as you can see in Ozymandous's screenshot, all citizens should eat two food, even the newly conquered Indian civilians (look at Madras and Deli)...as to why the population isn't starving in that one screen shot in Madras, i'm not sure but they should be

I wasn´t articulate ... what I wanted to say was that perhaps 'hostile' citizens don´t work tiles and don´t require food while you´re at war with their 'mother' civ. Ozymandous's screenshot seems to be taken later in the game when the Gamespot tester possibly had a peace treaty with the Indians (after capturing Delhi).

[Ozymandous]

If Firaxis has implemented a model of "captured" citizens refusing to work until they have either acclimated (sp?) to their new rulers or you have poeace with their mother nation, all I can say is...

Wow!

Hopefully someone with an advance copy of the game could find this out.

[Crouchback]

We're only going to put the ICS issue to rest when we've got a copy of the game to play *hint* *hint*. But I'm getting increasingly pessimistic about the effect of not letting anyone outside the design team play-test the game before release.

By the way, did any one else notice the return of the luxury slider at the top of this screen shot, despite the repeated assurance that it was gone for good?

I wonder how old these shots are given the gag on other previewers making revelations before 22nd October?

David

[Harlan]

By the way, is this old news, or does Gamespot have more new screenshots today? Check out:

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters...61-104,00.html

for instance, for another shot to help answer these questions. I'm just starting to look at the shots now, but one interesting thing I just noticed is forested mountains! Nice.

I'm also guessing the info about the "precision strikes" is new.

Given this new Eisenstein shot, there are some things I think we can figure out.

First off, each citizen eats two food per turn. Eisenstein is thus producing 14 food and eating 14 for no gain.

For Madras, that would mean that the three characters with frowny eyes brows aren't smiling, they're yelling. These are very unhappy foreigners who are doing no work in the city. They aren't producing any food, but they also don't appear to be eating any food. Perhaps they're slaves of some kind? This leaves the veiled woman - look at the round yellow thing just below her - from the Eisenstein shot was can see that is a smiley face showing this person is adding one happiness to the city. I'm guessing this person is an entertainer, and the worked tile is the freebie each city automatically gets.

So this town has only 1 worked tile, explaining why a city of 4 is only producing 2 food per turn. It must be newly conquered, which is why it has no improvements or garrison yet despite being a size 4 city.

Eisenstein, meanwhile has 7 pop and 7 worked tiles. However, the guy with the bone through the head looks like he's an entertainer. So we can see only 6 pop are really working, and there's the one free city tile, making up the 7.

Not good news for ICS. We can also see a Granary in action.

[Harlan]

Another thing. There are two squares being worked by Eisenstein that appear to be exactly the same - Grassland with a road on it. However, one is giving 2 gold, and one is giving 1 gold. From another screenshot also covering the Eisenstein area, we can see that the tile giving 2 gold has a whitish dot on it. So what I figure is that the extra shield that Grassland sometimes got in Civ2 is gone, but is replaced by an extra gold on occasion. We can see these white dot Grasslands all over the new screenshots.