so this is the civ community?

[Wiglaf]

so one thread would make a difference? and splangy, what was that about not fully answering posts?

[Sarxis]

And here we go again:

Originally posted by Wiglaf
the product itself may well be awesome, but it's the 50-50-90 rule. if you don't know, it's more than likely not going your way. while we (they) can't argue about the game itself as the optimists magically can, pessimists have previous releases (smac, ctp, ctp2, tot) and various other options previously stated to go on.

If the pessimists have previous releases to go on, what makes you think the optimists don't have those SAME releases to base their arguements by?

the lack of info is one of the driving forces...with a lack of information and nothing but a laundry list of promised filler, it's only natural to argue with a bunch of fanatical supporters of the unreleased game, and attack the product itself for varying reasons (not enough dev time, etc)

Very unfounded statements. Laundry list of filler? You are exagerating now.

The only lack of info we have had, is that MP was not going to be released with the game. However, I have to state that this info WAS actually given to us three weeks (roughly) in advance of CivIII's release. Now, I know that many people went on the Firaxis statement that MP was 'in' waaaay back when, but as I have said before- disclaimers were probably in place. Things change. Nothing is concrete, and all that.

Also, the product itself is taking a second place to Firaxograme's policies in the pessimists attacks (as I already have said).

namely?

Shall I post 500 screenshots, numerous interviews and comments by the devs, Civ of the Week, Ask the Civ Team, preview videos, etc., here for you?

[Simpleton]

Re: so this is the civ community?

Originally posted by Wiglaf

people don't come here to read "I love you, Firaxis!" and Magaha love fests. believe it or not, with the flood of newer users, people come for an objective review of the product and, once registered, a varying opinion.

I think the mood right now is one of excitment and hope for a great game and people don't want to hear that the game sucks or Firaxis sucks. Many have been waiting for this game for 2 1/2 years the last thing they need is someone trash talking. No one really knows about the game and Firaxis does not suck they are a good solid game company.
However, once the game is out I know that people will post objective reviews about the game. If it sucks and they will post that it does and no one will sugar coat it because everyone loves Sid or Firaxis.

Another thought. How come it's ok for someone to come on this site and say Firaxis sucks or the Civ3 sucks but when someone challenges "pessimist" on their statement it is immediately called "flaming" or "ganging up"?

[yin26]

Simpleton: I agree that now is the euphoric 'shiny box' phase of things. Those are times when criticism is seen as a bigger deal than it is by people who have great hopes, etc. Wait until we find some bugs...and who will step up to the plate then.

yin, that sort of talk can get you kicked out of our fan club

LOL!

[Simpleton]

Originally posted by yin26
Simpleton: I agree that now is the euphoric 'shiny box' phase of things. Those are times when criticism is seen as a bigger deal than it is by people who have great hopes, etc. Wait until we find some bugs...and who will step up to the plate then.


LOL!

Yah I agree. I myself have been more sensitive recently because I want/need this game to be good! I don't want to consider the possibility that it might suck. When somebody throws spoiled milk in my face I get testy. I hope that if the game sucks everyone will see it for what it is - crap.
However, I am an optimist.

[Sarxis]

Good observations in human psychology guys

[yin26]

Well said. I hope the game is great, too. (...though I'll still wait for MP...)

[Faboba]

One thing the pessemists all seem to have in common is their utter conviction that the game will be dreadful. I suppose this could be cuased by them being jaded after CTP but really people. if you can't look forward to it like the rest of us, then wait and see it before bashing it huh?

namely, the bashing of people with any and all doubts as to the quality of a game with a 'fanatical' following. and when the release date comes and the product is cahrapo, look who wished they hadn't been so blinded.

Yeah but you'll all be gutted if it turns out to be as good a game as it could be. I mean, they've put the work in there.

people don't come here to read "I love you, Firaxis!" and Magaha love fests. believe it or not,

Speak for yourself. I like magaha love fests. They give me warn fuzzy feelings.

[Sarxis]

Originally posted by Faboba
One thing the pessemists all seem to have in common is their utter conviction that the game will be dreadful.

Actually, this is not true. A great deal of what the pessimists are stating has to deal with the exclusion of MP at the initial release, as well as a few other details/features that are not up to their expectations, and not that the game will supposedly be 'dreadful'.

Gross overstatements and generalizations are part of the problem with these arguements, on both sides of the debate(s).

[Rasbelin]

Re: so this is the civ community?

Originally posted by Wiglaf

people don't come here to read "I love you, Firaxis!" and Magaha love fests.

You have just caused the collapse of my world!

[Grumbold]

Thanks for trying to inject a bit of calm Wiglaf. Unfortunately any post that mentions optimism or pessimism will be hijacked in the present climate. Both sides have some very excitable people unwilling to moderate their language now we have reached C3-Day minus 15. Current world events mean there are a larger than normal number of angry people out there too.

[Wiglaf]

Shall I post 500 screenshots

1) graphics don't matter
2) that's good, because civ's graphics aren't too hot
3) yes, please post all 500

numerous interviews and comments by the devs,

find me one gaming company that conducts interviews saying "our product will suck. happy now?"

Civ of the Week, Ask the Civ Team, preview videos, etc.

all straight from Firaxis. the civ of the week tells you nothing about how well the balancing is, the ATCT is a waste of canned answers, and the preview videos are hype with no gameplay at all.

Very unfounded statements. Laundry list of filler? You are exagerating now.

and having 500 worthwhile screenshots isn't?

all the talk about trade, resources, super AI, etc...it all can't come together perfectly no matter how hard they try. the best chance firaxis has is to minimize the damage.

If the pessimists have previous releases to go on, what makes you think the optimists don't have those SAME releases to base their arguements by?

if optimists base their case on how godlike ctp was, they lose by default anyway.

Yah I agree. I myself have been more sensitive recently because I want/need this game to be good! I don't want to consider the possibility that it might suck.

exactly, thanks for being honest. now off to optimists anonymous.

Another thought. How come it's ok for someone to come on this site and say Firaxis sucks or the Civ3 sucks but when someone challenges "pessimist" on their statement it is immediately called "flaming" or "ganging up"?

pessimists don't say "firaxis sucks"...but when it comes to pointing out glaring and obvious shortcomings, optimists always fall back on that "why don't they leave" garbage, and totally forget that civ3 is a game, and it has the same chance of being poor as all the other products out there, only given the extreme hype, even more so.

Thanks for trying to inject a bit of calm Wiglaf.

the fanatics pounced on it earlier than I expected

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Grumbold

Current world events mean there are a larger than normal number of angry people out there too.

I have felt that already.

[MarkG]

peace to all nations
and all civers