so this is the civ community?

[Wiglaf]

it's so obvious, yet it happens again at again. whenever you see a major release, board pressure (for lack of a better term) builds up...namely, the bashing of people with any and all doubts as to the quality of a game with a 'fanatical' following. and when the release date comes and the product is cahrapo, look who wished they hadn't been so blinded.

your bashing of "pessimists" is stupid and based soley on the money you will or have spent on something your mind tells you will be good for God knows what reason. You've heard a fraction of what you need to know about the game to justify a purchase, and you haven't confirmed nearly enough to flame those who argue your position.

people don't come here to read "I love you, Firaxis!" and Magaha love fests. believe it or not, with the flood of newer users, people come for an objective review of the product and, once registered, a varying opinion.

civ3 might be good. but then again it might not. we've lost sight of the fact that it's a game. we've seen SMAC, ctp, ctp2, ToT...no Firaxis TBS game, or recent Civ game, has been as good as some of you dream of civ3 being. Actually, all we've got to go on is the five year old civ2 which many of you now dislike.

So be open. We've all got high hopes, but this flaming and shunning is childish and ignorant. Don't come here to justify your lost nights of sleep or spent $60, come here to talk about civ3 and how great it might be, but be tolerant of those who think otherwise.

like horse said, it's just a game anyway. don't go too far with it...

[squid]

if you think otherwise, what value do you have in staying here to complain? Perhaps you should find another game to worship if this isn't your bag? Gosh it's like a fan club for a game where half the people here are really just protesters! It doesn't work.

[splangy]

Originally posted by squid
if you think otherwise, what value do you have in staying here to complain? Perhaps you should find another game to worship if this isn't your bag? Gosh it's like a fan club for a game where half the people here are really just protesters! It doesn't work.

I agree

But what he is saying is that we should all be negative so that we dont sound happy If someone wants to be happy and worship sid, its there oppinion, if they are trying to be positive what right do you have to tell them not to be ?

About the pessemist bashing. I know all positive oppinion has been bashed by the pessimists so who are they to tell us not to retaliate?!? Thats would be like America apeaseing Bin Laden after he hit the WTC and not responding (I know its abstract but im sitting here watching the news). If I want to say something thats not of your oppinion im allowed to without you telling me to shut up!

I really wish everyone would drop the whole pessimist vs optimist thing, its really childish, but I won't tell people to do that becouse were allowed to express our oppinions.

Also, why does everyone here take this forum so seriusly? Ive said it before and ill say it again, whether the game is god or crap tommorow still comes...

[SteveJH]

Originally posted by splangy

Also, why does everyone here take this forum so seriusly? Ive said it before and ill say it again, whether the game is god or crap tommorow still comes...

You meant good, right?

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by squid
if you think otherwise, what value do you have in staying here to complain? Perhaps you should find another game to worship if this isn't your bag? Gosh it's like a fan club for a game where half the people here are really just protesters! It doesn't work.

it's under a month to release...all the fanatics are set loose and start making stupid rash statements about the perfection of something that they haven't even touched...that's a much bigger reason to leave to make room for rational conversation

But what he is saying is that we should all be negative so that we dont sound happy

being "happy" is different...please reread my post

[splangy]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


it's under a month to release...all the fanatics are set loose and start making stupid rash statements about the perfection of something that they haven't even touched...that's a much bigger reason to leave to make room for rational conversation

You havent touched it either! that is why I really dont see any point in debating its future yet...

being "happy" is different...please reread my post

Ummm, I wasen't really adressing your post, I was adressing the pessemistic opinions your trying to protect...

Also, I find it funny how you ignored my entire post, I wonder why

[Wiglaf]

lso, I find it funny how you ignored my entire post, I wonder why

ok

If someone wants to be happy and worship sid, its there oppinion, if they are trying to be positive what right do you have to tell them not to be ?

being 'positive' is different from flaming and looking down on "pessimists"...people of varying viewpoints shouldn't be shunned or whatever as has happened before and, judging by the general mood of these forums, it's happening again, and it's pretty pathetic

About the pessemist bashing. I know all positive oppinion has been bashed by the pessimists so who are they to tell us not to retaliate?!? Thats would be like America apeaseing Bin Laden after he hit the WTC and not responding (I know its abstract but im sitting here watching the news). If I want to say something thats not of your oppinion im allowed to without you telling me to shut up!

ok, but the whole whining thing has to end eventually, and it starts by you not bombing osama bin laden, or whatever. pessimists that bash are just as bad, but not all nay sayers are as issac-brockish as most 'optimists'...actually yin is the only person on these boards who goes out of his way to argue about civ3, and even he has a worse reputation than he deserves...some of his points are very valid

I really wish everyone would drop the whole pessimist vs optimist thing

agreed to a certain extent

You havent touched it either! that is why I really dont see any point in debating its future yet...

generally, all sweeping and rash statements are stupid as well

and splangy, I rarely fully respond to long posts bit by bit, but instead I try to respond to the gist of it, which I think I did

Also, why does everyone here take this forum so seriusly? Ive said it before and ill say it again, whether the game is god or crap tommorow still comes...

that doesn't address me, I don't think, and if it does please reread my original post

[Chronus]

The ironic thing about all this is that both camps (if you can call them as such) are guilty of the same things and yet insist that it is the other camp that is wrong, intolerant, whatever.

I hope it's obvious that I'm not refering to every individual, just the overall sentiments. Then again, each camp may simply have their 5% minority of big mouths who create 95% of the bashing.

[kittenOFchaos]

www.civfanatics.com FOR A TRUE fanatical following of the civ series

[yin26]

Wiglaf: Excellent post!

For the record: I never attack the optimists until they come hunting me down for expressing my opinions. And even then I look for the first opportunity to move on. What I do and will continue to attack, however, are things like hyping a feature and then only announcing at the 12th hour that you'll have to pay for it (most likely) separately God knows when.

[Tolkien]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
ok, but the whole whining thing has to end eventually, and it starts by you not bombing osama bin laden, or whatever.

what the f-ck is this supposed to mean!? are you saying 'we' americans don't have the right to bomb that bastard that killed more than 5,000 innocent people? I am an american, and it pisses me off when other people from around the world tell us (americans) we don't have the right to retaliate - I got into an argument like this on battle.net/diablo2 LoD last night. we have all the rights in the world to do so...and we will do it! if it was up to me we would be bombing 'til dooms day. They pissed me and the rest of americans off, I think worse than ever before...and will recieve their reward for doing such.

[Wiglaf]

tol...calm down..it was a reference to splangy's analogy, that was heavily flawed. retaliation for a flame on a message board is much different from retaliation for a terrorist attack, obviously, and that's what I was pointing out, not a political viewpoint or anything.

and yin, that sort of talk can get you kicked out of our fan club

[Sarxis]

Re: so this is the civ community?

Originally posted by Wiglaf
your bashing of "pessimists" is stupid and based soley on the money you will or have spent on something your mind tells you will be good for God knows what reason. You've heard a fraction of what you need to know about the game to justify a purchase, and you haven't confirmed nearly enough to flame those who argue your position.

people don't come here to read "I love you, Firaxis!" and Magaha love fests. believe it or not, with the flood of newer users, people come for an objective review of the product and, once registered, a varying opinion.

But the 'pessimist' team isn't objectively criticising the 'product', but rather the developer's public relations. The whole argument was spawned out of the expressed disappointment of MP being delayed, but it quickly degraded into a criticism of Firaxis' lack of PR on the subject, and then further degraded into numerous character slurs and bashings.

I for one agree that Firaxis could have (and still can) heal many hurts with one simple post of explanation, but at the same time, their obligation to do so, and the arguement that states they are obligated, is pretty much nill.

Now, the 'optimists' are not any better in that they have also flamed and bashed with the best of them.

your bashing of "pessimists" is stupid and based soley on the money you will or have spent on something your mind tells you will be good for God knows what reason. You've heard a fraction of what you need to know about the game to justify a purchase, and you haven't confirmed nearly enough to flame those who argue your position.

This may be true, but then how is it possible for the pessimists to have enough info to criticise the game?

And I, and many tens of thousands of others, have heard MORE than enough to justify a purchase of CivIII, if buying a game that may very well be the ruin of us can ever be 'justified'.

[Wiglaf]

But the 'pessimist' team isn't objectively criticising the 'product', but rather the developer's public relations. The whole argument was spawned out of the expressed disappointment of MP being delayed, but it quickly degraded into a criticism of Firaxis' lack of PR on the subject, and then further degraded into numerous character slurs and bashings.

the product itself may well be awesome, but it's the 50-50-90 rule. if you don't know, it's more than likely not going your way. while we (they) can't argue about the game itself as the optimists magically can, pessimists have previous releases (smac, ctp, ctp2, tot) and various other options previously stated to go on.

This may be true, but then how is it possible for the pessimists to have enough info to criticise the game?

the lack of info is one of the driving forces...with a lack of information and nothing but a laundry list of promised filler, it's only natural to argue with a bunch of fanatical supporters of the unreleased game, and attack the product itself for varying reasons (not enough dev time, etc)

And I, and many tens of thousands of others, have heard MORE than enough to justify a purchase of CivIII.

namely?

[dainbramaged13]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
www.civfanatics.com FOR A TRUE fanatical following of the civ series

BAN THE HERETIC!


BOO HISS!

As Horsie said, its just a game...

this from a guy with 10,000 posts...