A thought on OCC

[orange]

In Civ II, the OCC (One City Challange) was completed quite easily by tons of people, even on Deity.

If this continues to be true in Civ III, I'd be disappointed, as no single city should be able to win the game in any way. However, that'd also be a bummer for all the people who loved playing OCC, trying to improve their score, time, landing on AC, etc. What do you think?

[Akron]

It shouldn't be possible. Even the best of players should have a real hard struggle on deity. There must be games that can only be won very slimly even with perfect play. Unfortunately, this isn't about to happen. So long live OCC.

[dainbramaged13]

I cant beat occ deity
i betat it on prince, but thatts the hardest ive tried besides diety

[Admiral]

It will quite probably be possible, it will just be a lot harder than in Civ 2.

[Blake]

I think it will be possible... probably not on diety though.

A couple of death blows to current OCC strategy.
Cant cash in carvans to build wonders.
Diplomat /spies abstracted, no buying off enemy units. (unless this can be achieved by another unit...)
Small wonders often have a pre-req of several facilities...

A couple of bonuses:
One city can win the Culutre victory. Thus OCC culture victory should be possible.
Civ specific abilities. Some civs may be easier for OCC (commercial and scientific comes to mind...)

Neutral:
Depending on how great leaders work it may be possible for an OCC player to get his fair share of great leaders for rushing Wonders...
Resources required for some builds, depending on how usfull Colonies are this may or may not be a problem. Also seeing OCC's dont need much military you may not need any strategic resources at all...

[d_dudy]

i think leaders will be too rare for much rushing but i believe cultural occ and space will be possibe, at the least on the easiest level

[Akron]

Chieftain in civ 3 is supposed to be easier than in civ 2.

People will definitely find ways to exploit the computer in OCC, so I expect that it will be beatable at least up to emperor.

[JellyDonut]

Originally posted by Blake
I think it will be possible... probably not on diety though.

A couple of death blows to current OCC strategy.
Cant cash in carvans to build wonders.
Diplomat /spies abstracted, no buying off enemy units. (unless this can be achieved by another unit...)
Small wonders often have a pre-req of several facilities...

On the lower levels, I can beat OCC without caravans or diplomats/spies. Since they said the lower levels will be easier than in Civ II, I am assuming OCC will be too.

A couple of bonuses:
One city can win the Culutre victory. Thus OCC culture victory should be possible.
Civ specific abilities. Some civs may be easier for OCC (commercial and scientific comes to mind...)

Right. Although I think some of the other methods of winning will be possible, too. I wouldn't be surprised to find the Science, Culture and Diplomatic victories possible here, although I wouldn't limit it to just that. There were people who beat OCC by taking over the world in Civ II
(I did this once in Zero City Challenge, in which I played the French on the small word map on Chieftain against England and Spain. I beat the game in 4 turns taking over the cities with my settlers before they could build any defensive units ).

Neutral:
Depending on how great leaders work it may be possible for an OCC player to get his fair share of great leaders for rushing Wonders...
Resources required for some builds, depending on how usfull Colonies are this may or may not be a problem. Also seeing OCC's dont need much military you may not need any strategic resources at all...

They said Great Leaders were a very rare occasion. I doubt the spending on units, defense and the loss of a trade partner due to war would be worth the Great Leader.

The resource problem is my biggest concern about OCC in Civ III. You may have to sacrifice many pop points to get workers, or if you can capture some enemy workers. I think, however that having that wonder- and building-filled city will expand the city borders a bit, alleviating this problem a little. You can then trade unused resources for those you need.

As far as civ-specifics go, I think the best would be a combination of scientific, commercial and/or industrious. I think my first OCC will use a "modified" civ, with an upgraded worker for a special unit and all the civ abilities (even Militaristic, because it gives you the Warrior Code or Wheel), on Chieftain, against 15 civs (for 15 trading partners) just to start out in the shallow end.

[orange]

OCC on Chieftan sounds reasonable...but anywhere else it should be an absolute ***** to do. Civ II, from what I've seen, was way to easy. Very unrealistic.

[Provost Harrison]

Well SMAC was relatively straightforward for OCC, as you had many features to help you, ie, crawlers so you could bring in extra minerals and construct energy parks within your borders to bring in the science. You could even reasonably comfortably win. I have never tried it on civ2, but it would strike me as very hard without these features to give you a bit of an advantage...

[Skanky Burns]

In Civ 3 with OCC, i dont think you would be able to get leaders easily at all. Also, most small wonders will not be buildable by you. The ones that have requirements of 5 banks, or 5 SAMs will be very difficult to get with only one city!

I read somewhere that wonders might also require resources to build, making the job of building the ones you are allowed to even harder.

I believe that getting an OCC victory will come down to how much culture you can produce with just the standard buildings in your city, and just if the AI/barbarians will allow you to stay alive.

[Fidel]

good god. how was it possible to win OCC anyway? i mean what can you possibly produce in one city. how do you win the game? beats me....

[Bleyn]

There is one thing about Civ3 that I haven't seen anyone mention, and I would have thought it would be a boost to OCC. And that is the change in the support method for units.

No longer having even the possiblity of having to support units with shields should be a big boost to OCC. As long as your economy is strong enough, you'll probably be able to support quite a number more units than you would have in Civ2, and it won't hurt new construction at all.

Or is there something about the new support system vs. the old that I am missing?

[Grumbold]

Provided the AI can recognise a potential winner and is self-interested enough to declare war even if its natural attitude is to be nice to a weaker power, there should not be a problem. A single city cannot support enough troops to keep its territory from being pillaged provided the AI can muster an effective attack. We will just have to see if the programming has left flaws that can be exploited. OCC is all about exploiting flaws. One rich city may be able to support more units but that may not help if it can't produce armies.

[Father Beast]

some thoughts...

The OCC strategy was not discovered until late 1999 on these forums. Game had been out for 3 years. was hit and miss until Paul wrote the definitive guide, which opened it up to all. First time OCCers, if they're not Deity vets, generally take 2 or 3 tries to win the game that way, even following the guide.

Truth is, it wouldn't be that easy if some guys hadn't paved the way. And the nature of TBS allows us to duplicate other's tactics.

Next...

I'm wondering if you could get some leaders by winning battles against barbarians, thus making it not so neccessary to go against your trading partners.

There are some serious difficulties, like being able to gather the resources for trading that you can sell for increased profit, more difficult with one city.