What are your beefs with Civ3?

[Sava]

I have nothing to complain about, I expect Civ III to be an awesome game that eats up many hours from my life.

The thing I think is funny is the people that whine about what they think is going to suck in Civ III are the same people that will be playing the game 8 hours a day.

I often make suggestions about things that I'd like to see in the game, but I'm not going to complain if these things aren't in the game.

I wonder if Sid Meier could be held libel for all the time I'm going to waste playing that game.

[Chronus]

5. No hp/fp for units anymore? What the hell is that? I better not see my battle ship lose to a phalanx in this game as happens in civ 1 far to often.

YIKES!!!

Has this been officially confirmed? I hope it isn't true.

[FuFu15]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What are your beefs with Civ3?

Originally posted by Bleyn

2. A lot of the people complaining about MP seem to forget that it takes a LOT more effort to make a great SP game than it does to make MP work. Their choice to delay MP shows that not only do they want MP to be the best it can be, they want the SP to be really good as well. There are trade-offs that have to occur in the development of a computer game and as things go, I don't think this is all that bad of one.

k here's a revelation that came in my dreams last night. TAKE THE NETWORK CODE FROM SMAC, and IMPLEMENT IT IN CIV3. OH MY. It's not like that could take more than a couple weeks to tweak it up to civ3 par. then release all your revolutionary "multiplayer tweaks" in the expansion pack.

[Earthling7]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are your beefs with Civ3?

Originally posted by FuFu15


k here's a revelation that came in my dreams last night. TAKE THE NETWORK CODE FROM SMAC, and IMPLEMENT IT IN CIV3. OH MY. It's not like that could take more than a couple weeks to tweak it up to civ3 par. then release all your revolutionary "multiplayer tweaks" in the expansion pack.

They want the expansion pack to sell. Get it?

[squid]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are your beefs with Civ3?

Originally posted by FuFu15


k here's a revelation that came in my dreams last night. TAKE THE NETWORK CODE FROM SMAC, and IMPLEMENT IT IN CIV3. OH MY. It's not like that could take more than a couple weeks to tweak it up to civ3 par. then release all your revolutionary "multiplayer tweaks" in the expansion pack.

you clearly do not work in software development. for one, the network code was most likely adapted and optimized to SMAC. usually this happens with the knowledge it will not be used again, since code portability to new architectures tends to make things inefficient and slower to develop. Even so, testing of a MP component would be radically different than testing the SP component, and this alone would take several months to iron out.

Firaxis made a design decision to do it right the first time rather than releasing a bad version and having to support it. I applaud that. It takes a good company to have the courage to say "no" to features when they do not have the time. Anyway, if you don't have the time to do it right the first time, you don't have the time to do it twice.

[Wexu]

My biggest concern is that pink nation color, what if I can't change it?!!

And BTW, units do have hitpoints..

[Ozymandous]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are your beefs with Civ3?

Originally posted by squid

Firaxis made a design decision to do it right the first time rather than releasing a bad version and having to support it. I applaud that. It takes a good company to have the courage to say "no" to features when they do not have the time. Anyway, if you don't have the time to do it right the first time, you don't have the time to do it twice.

It also takes a good customer to not pay twice for the same product. Would you buy a car that had non-changable tires that could only travel 10.m.p.h. on and couldn't drive more than 2 miles from your house only to have to pay more to get the "upgraded" tires with a pair of fuzzy dice later? Heck no.

If people want to pay double for a game because a game company couldn't pull it's head out long enough to build and sell the entire game in the first place then go right ahead, some of us will wait and see if ALL the promised features are included and if not, wait and buy the whole package later.

If the game ships with all promised features, including MP and isn't buggy then people will buy it, when people buy a game that doesn't have all it's features they are essentially telling a game company it's ok to shaft customers. I don't like to be jerked around and think it sends a bad signal for the gaming industry (whose credability is already thin). I don't like being a beta tester when I pay for a game and I sure as heck don't like paying double for a game that should have been sold as one piece to begin with. It's not a problem of money, I buy 3-5 games a year on average, but it's merely that I am tired of being lied to and being sold crappy product.

It's the principle of the matter. You want to be rewarded for doing a good job then when you have finished the job I'll be happy to reward you, no payment for poor service or product, it's that simple.

[HalfLotus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are your beefs with Civ3?

Originally posted by Ozymandous


It also takes a good customer to not pay twice for the same product. Would you buy a car that had non-changable tires that could only travel 10.m.p.h. on and couldn't drive more than 2 miles from your house only to have to pay more to get the "upgraded" tires with a pair of fuzzy dice later? Heck no.

If people want to pay double for a game because a game company couldn't pull it's head out long enough to build and sell the entire game in the first place then go right ahead, some of us will wait and see if ALL the promised features are included and if not, wait and buy the whole package later.

If the game ships with all promised features, including MP and isn't buggy then people will buy it, when people buy a game that doesn't have all it's features they are essentially telling a game company it's ok to shaft customers. I don't like to be jerked around and think it sends a bad signal for the gaming industry (whose credability is already thin). I don't like being a beta tester when I pay for a game and I sure as heck don't like paying double for a game that should have been sold as one piece to begin with. It's not a problem of money, I buy 3-5 games a year on average, but it's merely that I am tired of being lied to and being sold crappy product.

It's the principle of the matter. You want to be rewarded for doing a good job then when you have finished the job I'll be happy to reward you, no payment for poor service or product, it's that simple.

In game terms I think Civ3 (SP) will be far better than "a car that had non-changable tires that could only travel 10.m.p.h. on and couldn't drive more than 2 miles from your house".

Multiplayer has never been PROMISED to ship with first release. Who are you to decide what the COMPLETE game is? Are you programming the game? Do you work for Firaxis? Didn't think so.

I believe CIV3 with only SP will be well worth the money I pay for it. It would be nice to have MP, but Civ 3 will be worth it's weight in gold.

You now, but I'll bet you buy Civ 3 and love it.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by yin26
There are a number of indications that Civ3 is being held to a pre-Christmas deadline. The lack of a wider beta effort...apparant lack of MP out of the box...only 16 civs through using the editor...

No offence yin, but you are not accurate regarding the '16 civs'-issue. A few quotes from another thread (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...0&pagenumber=2), emphasis added:

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
Using the editor you can allow 16 civs to be played on smaller map sizes and also change the default sizes of the maps.

Originally posted by yin26
Which means you MUST use the editor to use 16 civs on anything but the largest map...

[Nemo]

I let you know what my issues with it are...after I play it first

[Patriqvium]

4. No new government forms infact they took out fundementalism...this is my biggest disapointment...I would like to have seen a few new ones like in CTP.

Some good news for you: It is possible to create new government types using the editors included with the initial release edition of the game.

[Gandalf The Grey]

Some good news for you: It is possible to create new government types using the editors included with the initial release edition of the game.

I saw that, but is it going to be like in Civ 2 where you can change the names and maybe a few numerical attributes? Thats weak. I was so hoping to see new governments...but i guess its going to be despotisms and democracies hand in hand like in civ 2...that always annoyed me, I always wanted to see a world cololition of fundementalists or communists against a cololition of Democracies or some higher form of government....well theres always civ 4 .

[Jools]

I'll wait and see though I do have some issues

Will this game bring anything new into the series? CTP was crap but it had a lot of good new ideas. Played Europa Universalis lately? That's a new brilliant idea and many people like it because it is something new.

Anyway I hope it will be good..... But generally the more I talk to EU2 beta testers (and watch my brother play CTP2, yech!) the more I loose my 10 year loyalty to civ........

[ixnay]

Originally posted by Gandalf The Grey


I saw that, but is it going to be like in Civ 2 where you can change the names and maybe a few numerical attributes? Thats weak. I was so hoping to see new governments...but i guess its going to be despotisms and democracies hand in hand like in civ 2...that always annoyed me, I always wanted to see a world cololition of fundementalists or communists against a cololition of Democracies or some higher form of government....well theres always civ 4 .

IIRC, you can specify wonders and improvements that can and can't be built under the certain governments. So, I would imagine that you would be able to make or edit the governments to be extremely diverse and different.

[CobraA1]

LACK OF MP HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED

quit whining about something you don't know about .