What are your beefs with Civ3?

[CobraA1]

From what I've seen so far, the editors are extremely powerful. They're definitely more powerful than editing the text files in Civ II (example: you can add new governments).

[FuFu15]

Originally posted by CobraA1
LACK OF MP HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED

quit whining about something you don't know about .

LACK OF A FIRST PERSON SHOOTER IN WHICH U KILL RABBITS hasnt been confirmed EITHER. but with the evidence, you can sure as hell conclude that.

[CobraA1]

The "evidence" consists of a single letter, and about 10000 posts screaming "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!."

And last I heard, we weren't talking about first person rabbit shooters.

[yin26]

Lockstep: My understanding is that 16 civs is the default only for the largest map. If you want 16 civs on other maps (or anything other than the default civs determined by Firaxis for each map size) you have to use the editor.

Do you have different information?

[gremalkin]

My biggest worry is the AI.. Though certain recent threads have given me hope..

I'm also worried that after a few games a single strategy becomes the best and easiest way to win the game.. Which I guess is to do with the AI and game balancing. If as and when they bring out MP, it will be really boring if there is one sure fire way to win.. There has been a lot of talk on making peaceful strategies as powerful as military ones tho, so there's hope yet!

But I've got no beef with Firaxis until I've played the game! What I really hope is that the AI thrashes me the first 3 or 4 games.. Then I'll know they've done the business!!

[gremalkin]

[SIZE=1] 2. Too many irrelevant UUs. 1/1/2 for the aztec UU? I dunno about the rest of you but it isn't long before i get bronze working i normally only make 1 warrior in civ2 and thats to scout with...some of the units look like they will be good but for the most part many seem a little to weak.

With the need for the horse resource in order to build cavalry units, the aztecs have a 2 movement point unit right from the start of the game - that requires no resource.. This is surely incredibly powerful? Plus I have read that workers can be captured.. A two movement point cheap unit will be perfect for picking off workers..

I guess we need to see how the UU's play.. And you can always switch them off..

[Ozymandous]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are your beefs with Civ3?

Originally posted by HalfLotus


In game terms I think Civ3 (SP) will be far better than "a car that had non-changable tires that could only travel 10.m.p.h. on and couldn't drive more than 2 miles from your house".

Multiplayer has never been PROMISED to ship with first release. Who are you to decide what the COMPLETE game is? Are you programming the game? Do you work for Firaxis? Didn't think so.

I believe CIV3 with only SP will be well worth the money I pay for it. It would be nice to have MP, but Civ 3 will be worth it's weight in gold.

You now, but I'll bet you buy Civ 3 and love it.

Well... The analogy was that you're buying a semi-functional product and having to pay more to complete the whole product at a later time. Sorry you couldn't quite piece that together.

I believe SP has the potential to be very good for the game but shipping it (potentially) with only SP and no MP to charge MP later would be wrong, IMHO.

Oh, and regarding this "MP was never promised to ship with the first release" BS. since when? When the game was first advertised there were numerous references to "ground-breaking MP", etc. Since word leaked out several weeks ago about MP not being included (and not denied by Firaxis) most of the web sites that used to include "ground-breaking MP" as a feature of the game on initial release have since changed their ad's. If you followed the game development closer you'd know this.

I hope that SP will be worth the money people pay for it, and I hope they like to shell out additional dollars if MP comes out with an add-on pack (of which >50% of the scenarios will come from the Internet anyway), but I can guarentee that I will wait to buy them both together, if at all based on real reviews a month or two after it's released.

I rant now? Nah, not really, because I loved the firct Civ and have already had my expectations shattered when Civ2 was nothing but Civ1 with better graphics. I doubt Civ3 will be that much different than Civ2 except for soime minor things. If it is radically better with adaptive AI, better unit design and if the "added" features like culture and hero's actually make the game better then fine I may get it, provided it all ships in one piece.

In all honesty I do hope the game is great and ships with MP (as originally promised) because I'll join the rest of the lemmings in buying it, otherwise I'll buy Stronghold and/or Pool of Radience and be happy with those until MOO3 comes out and then I may buy Civ3 when the gold edition comes out.

Civ3 is not the end all-be all, of my life or my computer gaming experience unlike some folks here apparently.

[KrazyHorse]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What are your beefs with Civ3?

Can we agree to stop "replying w/quote" now, please?

[lockstep]

Originally posted by yin26
Lockstep: My understanding is that 16 civs is the default only for the largest map. If you want 16 civs on other maps (or anything other than the default civs determined by Firaxis for each map size) you have to use the editor.

This is also my understanding, but I wouldn´t abridge it to a mistakable 'only 16 civs through using the editor' as you did before.

BTW, I think your criticism regarding beta efforts and MP was clipped and precise.

[yin26]

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, I wasn't clear. But you quoted my statement elsewhere in which I say it:

Which means you MUST use the editor to use 16 civs on anything but the largest map...

I have been assured, however, the editor is a friendly tool that even seeds the civs randomly, so perhaps it will only be a few extra steps?

[Earthling7]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only official info we have on the mapsizes and amounts of Civ in a game is from that Firaxis Q&A page.

As I see it, it's a default. You could select how many Civs to play in Civ2, why not here? It doesn't say that it's a max amount, so it could be a default or recommended for that mapsize. No?

[yin26]

I agree with that except for the way it was answered in another thread. Something like: "Can we not have 16 civs in a game?" "Well, 16 is default for the largest map size..." as if to say, 16 ONLY for the largest map. If that was just bad timing/wording, and if we can select any number of civs up to 16 for any map size (which is how it should be...within logical limits of too many civs for too small a map or something), then great!

[Boris Godunov]

But if it only takes the use of the editor, which is supposedly very simple, then what does it matter what the game defaults are? You can just change it to suit your little heart!

I think this thread should be beefs that can't seem to be fixed with the editor. I think the editor is going to make a lot of people very very happy.

I have ONE major gripe that doesn't seem to be easily solved by the editor, and that's the exclusion on the Ottoman Turks/Arabs and inclusion of the Iroquois. Yes, I know you can change the civs, but I want a leader portrait! And I don't want to have to go in and change all the civ-specific things about the Iroquois to the Turks. I want it done for me!! It makes no sense to me and I strenuously object!!!

However, this might get fixed in the expansion pack, which I hope will add new civs.

*Breathes deeply*

[Boris Godunov]

if we can select any number of civs up to 16 for any map size (which is how it should be...within logical limits of too many civs for too small a map or something), then great!

What I gather is that for each successive map size, the maximum number of civs gets greater. So for the huge map, you can select 16 OR LESS and so on. But on a smaller map, you couldn't go beyond the maximum except by using the editor, and this is just to maximize AI effectiveness.

If this is the case, what's the big deal? Just use the editor and be done with it if you want 16 civs on a small world (why on earth you'd want this, I don't know...)

Cheers.

[yin26]

If this is the case, what's the big deal?

[edited after re-reading]: The only point is that the player should be able to select the number of civs without having to use the editor at all...within reason of map limits. But if the editor is easy to use, etc., then this is no big deal, either.