What a joke this idea invaders can't use railroads

[PGM]

Re: What a joke this idea invaders can't use railroads

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
(...) stop these idotic comments.

Instead of insulting people, you should shut up, learn some manners and talk only after you've played the game because you're sounding pretty idiotic yourself.
About the actual road issue, both sides have a point, but I agree with Triped, Pembleton and Madine. IMO Realism is terribly important, but not to the point that it would cramp gameplay.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Yog-Sothoth
Btw, is this effect just for military units or will it affect trade units, diplos etc also?

Well, considering there are no trade units or diplomats/spies, id have to say that this rule doesnt affect them at all But seriously, i think it affects all units, settlers and workers included.

And i think the rule is a good one. As it is in Civ 2, an enemy unit can appear instantly outside your city, an entire army even, without you having the chance to counterattack. You could even get on a train, travel past all the enemy cities, directly to the enemies capital city, and take it out. Imagine if the Allies used that tactic during WW2!!

[Madine]

Actually Skanky they kind of did (Operation Market Garden). It was a miserable failure because the tanks were not able to travel along the road as fast as they expected.

[manofthehour]

Roads should give you a slight bonus if they are not yours. And than when you capture the city you can fully use it.
If you want to look in a history book look at vietnom where the roads were filled with mines. That will defintly slow down an army.

[Admiral]

If invaders were allowed to use railroads, and unlimited railroad movement points were kept, then, as Skanky Burns said, one would be able to conquer an empire in a few turns. As the AI was incompetant at utilising this stategy, this gave the human player a considerable advantage in the late game. It must be Done Away With

Dainbramaged13, that would be me. Consider yourself shouted upon

[Alexander's Horse]

DUH! THEY DID CONQUER EMPIRES IN A FEW TURNS

Originally posted by Admiral

one would be able to conquer an empire in a few turns.

Most historical wars took less than a few civ "turns" in fact. How many "turns" is 3 or 4 years? Even WWII only went for 6 turns.

[Xmudder]

AH is trolling, guys

Haven't you figured that out yet?

As for using railroads... I remember the exact opposite argument going on several years ago on the Operation Art of War web site. These grognards were complaining that it is almost impossible to use another's rail system to invade them. And I'll listen to a pack of nit-picking grognards before I'll listen to a troll and those who have fallen for his bait.
FWIW, in OPART, if you overrun rail roads, they are destoryed until you repair them.

You can not use railroad and roads in land CONTROLLED BY THE ENEMY, or without a right of passage agreement with an ally. But if you invade and knock out the city, the region will fall into neutral territory, and THEN you can use the roads and rails. But be warned... a high culture city further in may well be a stumbling block.

There are plently of ways to slow an enemy advance, so long as you control the countryside. Hell, you can put dinner plates in front of advancing tanks to slow them down. They'll have to send infantry forward to investigate the potential mines. Or use real mines, and block the road with dead tanks until they are moved out of the way.

[d_dudy]

she burnt horsey

[Rakki]

Historically fortresses and cities (fortified cities) do exert a zone of control upon nearby communications. It's worrying to move around if the defenders could suddenly sally out and burn your catapults or whatever.

But roads are still roads, and in my opinion, what should happen is that squares where a friendly military unit is already stationed should then be counted as outside the enemy city's ZOC. This would simulate the need to provide rear echelon security to your transport routes. Without security then the threat of being attacked would slow you down (moving at caution)

So, if you want to use enemy railway/road, you'll have to station units along every square that you want to use if it's within the enemy city's influence. Otherwise you pay the full cost of the square being travelled.

This is historically accurate - for example, large numbers of German troops were tied down in fighting off Russian partisans in WW2. The Russians also dumped paratroopers into enemy rear...

And if you want to pillage your railway to prevent the enemy using it, you'll have to do it yourself rather than some silly assumption like that the railway was automatically ripped up or something.

Vice versa, if you want to use your enemy's railways/roads, a vanguard will have to move in to secure the area. And if the enemy has pillaged it, well, you'll just have to send in your engineers to build your own.



That's my view anyway.

[DanS]

"FWIW, in OPART, if you overrun rail roads, they are destoryed until you repair them."

That's just the problem. Civ has neither an overrun action nor a railroad repair function. It is obvious that in the vast majority of situations, you have to change gauge no matter (i.e., repair the railroads or provide appropriate cars).

But instead of providing these functions in Civ3, we are forced to a ridiculous abstraction of not being able to do what otherwise equally obviously can be done in real life. With engineering support, a unit can use enemy rail.

So rather than the grognards being at cross purposes with AH, they are in support of him. One big happy family of people who know what they're talking about.

Nice construction, though. Stick around.

[Sarxis]

I think it is an interesting concept; especially since destroying one's own roads was hard to do in previous CIV games. I do agree that the realism isn't being helped by road/rail denial, but it is good gameplay wise.

[star mouse]

Tickets, please.

I'm sorry, sir, but your ticket won't allow you to take a tank on board the train because it won't fit in the luggage racks. You'll have to get out and walk.

[Skanky Burns]

lol @ Starmouse

[Alexander's Horse]

Another historical illiterate

Originally posted by star mouse

I'm sorry, sir, but your ticket won't allow you to take a tank on board the train because it won't fit in the luggage racks. You'll have to get out and walk.

You obviously haven't heard of the famous battle near the Donetz basin city of Stalino in 1943 where an SS panzer division was caught by Soviet tank formations whilst dismounting from trains. They fought off the Sovs.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Obviously AH is trolling, because he doesn't seem to care that we are more in it for the play balance and ability to play peacefully (by making war harder) rather than historical fact.