Please do NOT pirate Civ3!

[Dinner]

Re: pirating XPs

Originally posted by Kaak


Ummm....really reeally bad idea. All the XP programs have a call home feature in them. If you pirate, they will know

This is just another example of Microsoft doing something that is borderline illegal. How come all of their data/work is copy righted and protected but Microsoft gets to look at our hard drives and make copies of our work any time it pleases? I suspect there will be numerous patches put out by privacy advacates that will deactivate this function.

[Urban Ranger]

tuckson,

" Who the heck made up the a"bandonware "thing"? There is no such thing as "abandonware" for free though. Just like any other thing that is protected by copyrights (like books and songs and stuff like that) the law states certain period for which the right is at force (sorry if this sounds funny, but I'm no native english speaker, so lawyer's english is not one of my strong points). At least over here in Holland it does."

Theoretically speaking yes, but in practice many games are abandoned due to a number of reasons, so there are websites that host these games to be downloaded for free.


Dan,

" My personal view on the situation (hey, you asked) is that anytime I hear someone on a forum proclaim (usually proudly, I might add) that they are going to pirate one of our games, I add them to my ignore list and move on. Nothing I can say will change their minds."

I beg to differ. There are many different reasons why people want to pirate or even advocate piracy.

- Those who have no money. This is the group you can't do anything about.
- Those who just want to test the programs, no harm done here. Why can a consumer test drive a car but not test use a program? I am not talking about a demo or beta software here, I am talking about a full version.
- Those who do it out of spite or revenge against shoddy games they bought before. Don't forget you can only return purchases in some countries. Take me for example the last 10 games I bought only two I found worth playing. That's roughly USD320 I lost to shoddy games. Not that I wasn't careful either I read reviews, but reviews often fail me. The person who wrote the review for Starfleet Command hasn't really played the boardgame. The Sims, lets not talk about The Sims. I am not saying I pirate software as a revenge, but there are those who do. You need to make them see that it is wrong to lump every developer into the same camp.
- Those who just want to play a game before it is officially released in their countries.
- What about those who pre-ordered a game on a promised feature which gets cancelled later? Suppose that some players pre-ordered Civ 3 in Hong Kong (no mandatory return laws) for MP games just to find out that there's no MP, and that they may have to pay extra? How should this grieviance be redressed?



Jason Beaudoin,

" To put things into perspective, I ask you this: Why does it cost me only about 25 dollars CDN to buy a multi-millioin dollar Hollywood movie on DVD, and 80 dollars CDN to buy a computer game?"

A few reasons. First is there are many venues through which movies can make money. First of all there are cinemas. Then there is DVD. The studios can also lease the movies to be shown on TV. Last but not least there is merchandising.

An important distinction should be made between "cost" and "value." How many times you watch a DVD? 10 times? That's about 20 hours worth of entertainment. How many games of Civ 2 have you played? Hundreds of hours easily.


smellymummy,

Bootlegged CDs are a concern, but my perspective is humans are basically honest and good. Most people will gladly pay for something if they think they are getting their money's worth.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Heh... first time I agree with Yin on anything .

Well, not quite, but still interesting when it happens

[tuckson]

Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin

To put things into perspective, I ask you this: Why does it cost me only about 25 dollars CDN to buy a multi-millioin dollar Hollywood movie on DVD, and 80 dollars CDN to buy a computer game? If you say it's because of the lack of audience for computer games, well then, are you trying to attract more players by selling at extremely high prices?

Well, consider for example that the making of Civ3 lasts for several years now. The efforts for making a neat game lies on an bit a higher level than that of making a music cd (and yes, I like music too, so I'm not out here to crush on that).
So it's kind of logical that games are a bit more expensive.
I think of all commercially available software, games are pretty nice priced, compared to (again for example) Office suites or operating systems or whatever you want. Even for some shareware, prices often reach hights for above the financial possibilities of the avarage PC user.

If you want a cheap game, buy yourself a commercial variant of minesweeper.

[SITS]

I want Civ3 as soon as possible. If Britain has a delayed release then I might consider getting a warez version until it comes out here, I might even consider downloading it until the LE version comes out. This is simply for my own convenience and I am eager to put money in Firaxis pocket and as soon as they release the product I want then they will have it.

[yin26]

When Imran and I agree, clearly one of us must be wrong, because when we disagree, it's clear we are both right.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

When people who have no money dl the game it at least gives the game a wider audience... those people would never have bought the game at all, and when those people get the money, they will most likely buy the games they loved, and continue to purchase the games. In this case i think that piracy is good and that it makes the medium (games) available to much wider audience.

Personally at the time when i did no thave money i played Civ 1 from a friends copy, the same happened with civ 2 ... however later i have bought Civ1 , civ 2, ctp and ctp II. and of course I will buy Civ III, no doubt about that. So if there was no Civ 1 that was pirated by law.. the games idustry would have one less fanatic that buys its games, so would Firaxis.

And one more example of this... Half-life.. it came out while I still didn't have money... but after finishing it, I bought a copy for myself.. and afer two years, after I lost that one (and the game became corrupted) , i bought another one so I can play the mods... there you go this is how the games should be developed. Personally now.. when I work ther is no reason for me dl the games or pyrate in any other way, but before it made sense since i couldn't contribute to the company profits anyway... and because of that the industry will get my money for the rest of my like... if there was no piracy, most likely that i woulld have had some other hobby by the time I started working, as many of my other friends do. They were never charmed with games at the time they could allow themselves to be attracted.

I think pirating should be controlled so that only those who need it the most (cannot afford it, and similar) can actually be bothered to acquire it. Later on when you make money it is certainly easier (and if you have any morals better, still the emphasis is on easier ) to go to the nearest shop and purchase the game.

[tuckson]

You still didn't have money when half-life came out?
And you stated that once you did get the money you bought civ1, civ2 AND CTP2? After years you still bought Civ1?

Oh please, give us a break...
I'm getting indigestion of those wimpy stories...
BE A GUY AND BUY THE STUFF OR DON'T PLAY ' EM, BUT AT LEAST SHOW SOME GUTS BY NOT PIRATING IT.


Blah...

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by yin26
As for why I pick this time and method to raise the issue again, I have my reasons.

I'm willing to bet its because the press beta is imminent so no doubt it will soon be in the hands of the warez guys.

[yin26]

Give the man a cigar!

[Nikolai]

Are you sure he smokes, yin?

[Tjoepie]

I wonder how all those poor guys got there PC if a game is so expensive for them ...
Can I get a free PC too at a Warez site ?

BTW I'm sorry for the unfair distribution of wealth in the world, I also have to work for a living (like most guys at Firaxis I presume) but please keep some honesty; If you have the means to read this post: don't tell us you can't afford one PC-game if you really want it!

I still want to see poeple going to the trouble of making good games in the future, that's why I buy the real thing!

[Adm.Naismith]

I don't want to spend much time posting in a thread that probably never change the mind of anyone

I just would like to note that the use of pirated copies for trial porpuse only is technical illegal, but not unethical, IMHO.

Any game producer can easily solve this point distributing at least a limited demo. Music shops let you listen at least first few seconds of any songs before you buy - no return policy if CD is not phisical damaged, but with music we don't have compatibility issue AFAIK, so that's fine.

I have liked SMAC (no compatibility trouble), but SMACX demo constantly freeze on my PC: Firaxis can't help so I avoided to buy a piece of unusable sw (for me, I stress this) and considering we in Italy haven't a return/refund policy on sw for anything different from a damaged CD ROM, the Firaxis effort to give me a demo of SMACx helped both.
No angry customer is still better than a customer lost forever, IMO.

But Infogrames/Firaxis AFAIK chosed to avoid the demo opportunity/risk. I feel me free to consider alternatives for the only purpose to check game before a regular buy.

If some friends of mine can lend me his copy I'll use it to check, if not I'll look around.
Reviews and Apolyton forum can't give me info about compatibility with my hw/sw, of course. Too bad if an irregular copy will crash for its "cracked fault" and not for original Firaxis code problem

I'll miss a game: I will have still my 60$ to spend for something useful. Good meals are usually very compatible with my hw

Piracy is dead wrong, but customers can't be let out alone in the cold: you can't do this in any others commerce, so why SW developers and distributors should be able to do so?

They deserve good money for a working products, nothing less but nothing more.


And now I'm wondering if Dan Magaha is putting me too on the black list...

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by tuckson
You still didn't have money when half-life came out?
And you stated that once you did get the money you bought civ1, civ2 AND CTP2? After years you still bought Civ1?

Oh please, give us a break...
I'm getting indigestion of those wimpy stories...
BE A GUY AND BUY THE STUFF OR DON'T PLAY ' EM, BUT AT LEAST SHOW SOME GUTS BY NOT PIRATING IT.


Blah...

Sure i was on college, for Half life, and i bought Civ 1 for 5£ and i played it a few times as well. And you could be a guy and go live somewhere where you are not born with all the 'niceties' of the western world, and than speak.

Of course that most of the people who are here can afford a game, but some might not. I surely can afford it now. As for the PC's Civ 1 worked on a x386, and civ II on x486 and families might be able to buy a PC, but not a game for the kid

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by tuckson

There is no such thing as "abandonware" for free though. For software there's no difference I guess. The only way software that's no longer produced, but still not is "aged", is free is when the people who own the rigths DECIDE it's free.

If "abandoneware" should become free of rights, this would mean a change in copyright laws.

Well, I didn't actually say that abandonware is legal.
I should have explained myself a bit better. Sorry folks!

But my point is that software that isn't on sale anymore and
has at least a certain age (aka abandonware), could be
automatically considered as freeware.
Of course this would require changes into the laws, but
you can always bring up new ideas. This is one of those.
Be creative!