Blackened map - can it be done better?

[isaac brock]

I say leave it as it is. Ralf wants to make it harder, Asmodean wants everything to be easier. Why don't we just all meet half way and CHANGE NOTHING. Thank you.

[orange]

Civs should be more willing to trade maps, and not be able to recover maps so quickly.

What about three map types
Surface
Cities
Units

you should be able to trade information about each separately, or combinations of them. For example, you want to show someone the land you've discovered, but not the huge cities that you've built there. Trade Surface maps.

You want to show where cities are, but you don't want them to see what the land looks like. Trade city maps.

Unit maps can be shared by allies during war against a common foe. Etc.

[Christantine The Great]

CivII beat you to it, orange. In multiplayer there is a human option (AI was too dumb, I guess) to trade three types of maps: land; cities and land; and units, cities, and land. In other words about the same thing you suggested. Of course it would be kind of odd to just show your cities. Revealing the land around them won't give a potential enemy that much of an advantage.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ralf
In civ-games you can uncover black squares unrealistically fast with some early self-supporting in-the-middle-of-nowhere warrior-units. They way I look at it, all units except the explorer-unit (with or without a ship) should have a limited (but still reasonable) black-square uncover-ability. Any suggestions?

Sounds interesting, however you need to further define what you meant by "limited."

Along the same veins I suggested a few months ago that, before Mapmaking is discovered, maps aren't permanent. They slowly change shape - the further away from your own civ the faster the changes are.

Merchant Prince does the best job with the map.

[isaac brock]

In response to the subject "Blackened map - can it be done better?" Sir Isaac Brock has prepared this very important and unexpected response:





No.

[ETS]

Re Columbus knowledge of New World.

Whalers from Portugal processed their catch (primarily small menkes (sp) ) off the coast of Labrador during the early 15th century.

Columbus had made trip to Lisbon before starting his efforts to sell his project,and talked to seamen so he probably knew the land existed.

Columbus was telling everybody that the Indies was 3000 mi to the West (and 5000 mi over land to the East). All learned men since the time of Caesar knew the Earth was round and had circum of 25,000 mi (geometry of solar angle along the Nile).

Thus there was no question of Flat Earth, just a point that what Columbus proposed was impossible (and still is!!). He was just lucky to have been mistaken on targets and not run out of water.

The Flat Earth and Isabella's jewels were inventions of US writers in the 1890s.

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by isaac brock
In response to the subject "Blackened map - can it be done better?" Sir Isaac Brock has prepared this very important and unexpected response:


No.

LOL

But still I don't agree. I didn't exactly go for an easier game, allthough I agree it would make it so. I went for realism, and I just happen to think that the game would be made more realistic this way.

Let's say that it could be done this way: In civ3 you get culture points. The larger a culture, the greater the extent of said cultures interaction with the outside world. Now, I have always resented the notion, that the only inhabitants of your civ that actually get to see the world, are the units that you send out. Off course there are scholars, adventurors, merchants and all kinds of other persons that travel the world, and do so frequently. Furthermore a great culture is visited by people from all corners off the world. Just think of Marco Polo going to China in the thirteenth century, in a time where such journeys were almost unheard of. I think a system could be devised under which your visible map would expand, the more culture points you had amassed.

Another point, albeit a small one: I am from Denmark. I think I can safely say that in the year 1400 no Dane had ever been in China. However to deduct from that, that in the year 1400 the King, and the ministers of Denmark had absolutely no idea where China was, is absurd. Off course they knew. Maybe not exactly where, but they certainly knew direction, Sea-routes and even approximate distance.

I rest my case

Asmodean

[Roman]

Hey, Asmodean!

What does your user name mean? I think I recall it being the name of some legendary God. Am I right?

[mactbone]

Naaaah, he stole it from Robert Jordan's Rand-Land series

Don't deny it Asmodean

[Inverse Icarus]

how about blue fog?

[orange]

Originally posted by Christantine The Great
CivII beat you to it, orange. In multiplayer there is a human option (AI was too dumb, I guess) to trade three types of maps: land; cities and land; and units, cities, and land. In other words about the same thing you suggested. Of course it would be kind of odd to just show your cities. Revealing the land around them won't give a potential enemy that much of an advantage.

Yes, but this was only an MP option. Make it an option for AI as well.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by UberKruX
how about blue fog?

Nah, that couldnt work. Then you'd need to equip your scouts with gas-masks

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by MacTBone
Naaaah, he stole it from Robert Jordan's Rand-Land series

Don't deny it Asmodean

And off course you're right, MacTBone

Asmodean

[Provost Harrison]

I think the existing system is the best way of doing it, I couldn't envisage another way to do the exploration thing effectively. However what should be done is to make it impossible to determine where in the world you are until you have discovered, for example, the polar regions and can only assess things relative to one another in your known world. Once you have discovered the poles you can pinpoint yourself accurately. Basically what I mean is that you could not determine where in the world you are by looking at the mini map which will locate you at a point in the world; it should automatically be in the middle...

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Basically what I mean is that you could not determine where in the world you are by looking at the mini map which will locate you at a point in the world; it should automatically be in the middle...

Provost, thats a very good idea Civ 2 gave us too much info that we shouldnt have had right at the start.