Wishlist: which Wonders should be included?

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I think the Empire State Building should be considered, too. It was the first super-sky scraper of its kind and opened the era of 100-story plus tall buildings.

BG

Nooooooooooooooo.

The ESB is not that much bigger than the chrysler (sp?) building, certainly not enough to be considered a wonder. Wonders are supposed to last for centuries, but the ESB has been dwarfed by many buildings, much less than 1 century after it was built.

I made a thread on the Channel Tunnel, suggesting it should connect 2 continents in a similar way that the Grand Canal will connect 2 oceans.

[Boris Godunov]

Not quite...

The ESB is not that much bigger than the chrysler (sp?) building, certainly not enough to be considered a wonder. Wonders are supposed to last for centuries, but the ESB has been dwarfed by many buildings, much less than 1 century after it was built.

Not quite. I consider myself somewhat of an expert on this subject, since I worked across the street from both (and currently do so from the ESB). The ESB is much, much bigger than the Chrysler Building in both height and girth. Just ride the N train into Manhattan from Queens one day and you will see.

But the size isn't the issue. It's the significance. The ESB was the first of its kind, a 100 story building. While others have been built bigger, none are more famous. The ESB is what most people think of first when they think of skyscrapers (ok, now after 9-11-01, that may change...). The technological feat of building it was, at the time, quite amazing. It's certainly one of Americas most amazing buildings!

How exactly will the grand canal work? Anyone know?

Cheers.

[Sarxis]

Um, all of them?

Is this a trick question?

[in reference to topic]

But, the ESB is definately a wonder of the modern world. It was a revolutionary building in terms of size and manufacturing methods.

I mean, come on- don't you watch the Learning Channel?

[aaglo]

IMO Statue of Liberty does not qualify as a wonder of anykind . She is but a big chick that came from France as a gift. If it is a wonder, then I'm gonna make Firaxis repent . I'd rather see Mount Rushmore or Yellowstone as a wonder - because they are.

There is also another wonder name that makes me wonder. It's the Apollo program. Why that, Apollo-rockets weren't the first in space, not even close. Maybe the Americans don't like to remember, that they lost the race to space

[Sarxis]

I agree- 'Space Program' would be more generic, and this name would encompass the whole of the early space initiative, insteading of pointing to just the Americans (no, not Canada or Mexico, or the whole of that 'other' continent down south that we shall not name here).

[Adagio]

The statue of Liberty should defently be in, but a wonder that is

[Orlando]

Originally posted by aaglo

There is also another wonder name that makes me wonder. It's the Apollo program. Why that, Apollo-rockets weren't the first in space, not even close. Maybe the Americans don't like to remember, that they lost the race to space

Probably the same reason Magellan's Expedition was a wonder and not Columbus' Voyage, which is a good analogy for this situation. Columbus is generally viewed as the first European to set foot on the New World, but Magellan's Expedition went further, going around the world. Civilization seems to reward "most" not "first."

It's like in baseball when Babe Ruth was the first to hit 60 home runs in a season, but now four people have done it, three since Ruth and now Ruth's mark isn't regarded with as much awe as it used to be. Now McGwire's record is regarded as the "great achievement" to shoot for.

[Ribannah]

We already know many wonders that are in the game: see this thread.

However, for what it's worth, here are a few suggestions with regard to buildings (there are lots of ideas for non-building wonders as well):

Angkor Wat = temple in each city
Camelot = reduces cost of mounted units
Stonehenge = city squares +1 of everything
Kinderdike Mills = mill in each city
Hermitage = increases cultural influence
Sydney Opera House = copy of Shake's
Disneyworld = holiday resort in each city
Biosphere 2 = mining colony to each spaceport

[Fresno]

Originally posted by red_jon
The ESB is not that much bigger than the chrysler (sp?) building, certainly not enough to be considered a wonder. Wonders are supposed to last for centuries, but the ESB has been dwarfed by many buildings, much less than 1 century after it was built.

The Chrysler Building may be older, but it isn't as famous as the ESB. I think I'd choose the ESB.

Originally posted by Trifna
Le Louvre!!!
It got a big influence at its time. Lots of countries tried to copy it after. It is a marvel that cost tremendous amounts. I don't think many buildings cost that much per square meter also, thus it is very wealthy. I just wonder why it isn't in...

The Louvre is definitely one of the most famous museums around the world. Another building in Paris (near Paris, actually) which was copied many times is the Palace of Versailles. The cities of St. Petersburg and Washington are based on it's map. It was also copied in Germany, Austria and many other European countries. I think it simply deserves to be a Wonder.

Originally posted by aaglo
IMO Statue of Liberty does not qualify as a wonder of anykind

I agree the Statue of Liberty isn't as American as many people think. However, it still is an important symbol of the revolutionary period at the end of the 18th century.

Originally posted by Ribannah
Angkor Wat = temple in each city
Camelot = reduces cost of mounted units
Stonehenge = city squares +1 of everything
Kinderdike Mills = mill in each city
Hermitage = increases cultural influence
Sydney Opera House = copy of Shake's
Disneyworld = holiday resort in each city
Biosphere 2 = mining colony to each spaceport

I really like the idea of adding the Kinderdike Mills (After all, I'm Dutch myself ) but I'm not sure they are really known outside the Netherlands... I guess you're Dutch, because I never heard a foreigner about it at all.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by aaglo
IMO Statue of Liberty does not qualify as a wonder of anykind . She is but a big chick that came from France as a gift. If it is a wonder, then I'm gonna make Firaxis repent . I'd rather see Mount Rushmore or Yellowstone as a wonder - because they are.

There is also another wonder name that makes me wonder. It's the Apollo program. Why that, Apollo-rockets weren't the first in space, not even close. Maybe the Americans don't like to remember, that they lost the race to space

Oh come on, you will not do a darn thing to Firaxis over the statue.

Yellowstone isn't a man-made wonder, so it wouldn't really amke sense that you could build it...

Mount Rushmore means nothing to me. It's just damage to the local environment. If you want impressive carvings, Abu-simbel is much more awe-inspiring, especially considering the relative technologies.

Cheers.

[jsw363]

Here are my suggestions from the Americas:

Chitchen Itza (Mexico)- Doubles the effect of Temples
Machu Picchu(Peru)- Halve the cost of building fortresses
Cristo Redentor (Brasil)- Couble the effect of churches
Temple of Sun and Moon(Mexico)- 5 gold tribute from each civ

[Mongoloid Cow]

A wonder is supposed to be an engineering, cultural or construction marvel, not a city or an overgrown blue woman on an orange base (Statue of Liberty) wich was given to America by France to make relations between the 2 better.

The pyramids are perhaps the greatest wonders of them all. They were built all over the world. In Giza, they mapped out the positioning of Orions Belt and the Great Pyramid was the tallest building in the world before the Eiffel Tower was constructed.

I hadn't heard of Mount Rushmore before Sam and Max Hit the Road where you bungee-jumped out of their noses on a green rope and collected tar at the bottom in a Stuckey-U's cup.

The Empire State Building definately doesn't count as a wonder. Sure, it opened the door to much bigger, impressive and expensive buildings, but it was exceeded way to quickly.

[SerapisIV]

dp

[SerapisIV]

Originally posted by SerapisIV
Biosphere 2 = mining colony to each spaceport

Biosphere 2? How much glue did you sniff today? The copper lady in NY harbor is WAAYY more deserving of Wonder status then Biosphere2.

Let's build a giant greenhouse, dress people up in spacesuits for a few photo-ops, within months get exposed as a scientific bust (maybe fraud?) and then turn it into a tourist trap and make a huge profit off of morons who just left the Largest Ball of Twine up the road.

Oh yeah, and there are no spaceports in Civ3. Thank God. Sci-fi should be kept out of Civ games, just look at the CtP series.

[Gramphos]

The Atlantic Cable

I suggested Stonehenge a while back, but it is already in this thread, and I don't know whoever find the idea first.