Terrorism in Civilization III?

[MarkG]

Re: Re: Terrorism in Civilization III?

Originally posted by Zer0_T0lerance
There is a BIG difference between terrorists and spies. Spies only gather information about the enemy or send information to the enemy about their civilization, while terrorists actually terrorize people.

i'm talking about spies and diplomats who in civ games did more than collecting info

[Oligarf]

Indepent CIV's

I think Terrorist should be small CIV's, computer-controlled but not as complex as a real CIV's. Bin Laden's should exist, in some way.

Oligarf

[Inverse Icarus]

nations don't use terrorism (although some may support it) as a war tactic.

the taliband has threatened pakistan with a real war, like a government should.

in short: terrorism should be added in to the "random events" that aren't in civ3.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by UberKruX
in short: terrorism should be added in to the "random events" that aren't in civ3.

It could be added as an act of modern Barbarians.

[Inverse Icarus]

eh. i dont like that idea.

"Barbarians hijack a few 757's and crash into the Hanging Garderns in Stalingrad".

nope.

[faded glory]

I do!!!!!!!!


Barbarian factions inside your borders should be able to allie with a civ. I like the idea of Terrorists...but not barbarian being them! Terrorism is a real part of war! You should be able to attack citizens in a city and score some unhapiness points

[Martinus]

Why don't we simply give barbarians possibility of spawning diplomats/spies as well, with the same option available as the players have.

So they could get next to a city and sabotage a building, poison a well or plant a nuclear device - wouldn't it be exactly what we are trying to accomplish here?

Also, since there are now camps of barbarians - it would be possible to destroy them, as terrorist camps.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Martinus
Why don't we simply give barbarians possibility of spawning diplomats/spies as well, with the same option available as the players have.

So they could get next to a city and sabotage a building, poison a well or plant a nuclear device - wouldn't it be exactly what we are trying to accomplish here?

Also, since there are now camps of barbarians - it would be possible to destroy them, as terrorist camps.

Awesome idea

God Bless the USA

[Lordfluffers]

Originally posted by UberKruX
eh. i dont like that idea.

"Barbarians hijack a few 757's and crash into the Hanging Garderns in Stalingrad".

nope.

I really like the idea of bing able to destroy a world wonder. It always irritated me there was no covert way of nullifying he effects of a civs wonder without physically capturing it!

[Zer0_T0lerance]

Re: Re: Re: Terrorism in Civilization III?

Originally posted by MarkG
i'm talking about spies and diplomats who in civ games did more than collecting info

I realize that. So why not separate terrorists from spies? After all, civilizations usually don't control terrorists. They can only support them if they choose to do so.

Terrorist units could be like Barbarians, only they don't attack the countries that support them. Supporting terrorists is like another way of waging war on enemy nations, but it's very dangerous because those nations don't have direct control of the terrorists networks. So if the terrorists go too far the nation(s) that harbor(s) them could be found responsible for the terrorist's actions and war might be waged on the harboring nation(s).

Terrorism could be quite an effective method of waging war because it may cause victim governments to collapse, but only if their governed nations already have a lot of unhappy citizens/corruption in them.

If a nation chooses to support terrorists it takes a chunk out that nation's tax dollars because it costs money for the terrorists to carry out their "evil plans."

Terrorism should only come during the modern age of a nation. A nation will have to discover some key techs before it is allowed to "terrorize" other nations.

[Fresno]

Although there are some bloodthirsty nations in the real world, I don't think terrorists should be added as a small civ. Terrorists are citizens of different countries (sometimes democratic, sometimes ruled by a tyrant) and haven't got their own cities, their own government or whatever.

I think terrorists should be included in a new version of civ, but only as very unhappy citizens of one of the already existing civs.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

First of all, I'd like to say that I really like the idea of barbarians producing diplomats and spies (in principle), but I'd like to see a vastly different approach to espionage/terrorism! As an anology, building libraries, Universities etc gives you research points that help you to get advances. So certain "intelligence"-style improvements should give you "Espionage Points" that help you commit acts of espionage! Basically, once you've built your first Intelligence-gathering improvement, you should be able to go to your Foreign Affairs screen and select which Civs you want to target, and whether you have a preference for Espionage, Sabotage or both! The number of "Espionage Points" would determine the frequency of events, the chance (and level) of success and the chance of the acts being traced back to you. In fact, when you commit a particularly nasty act of sabotage, you should be given the option to leave behind evidence to implicate another Civ!!!
Espionage improvements in your Civ (# and type) should also be able to Reduce the number of acts against you and their chancefor success (Counter-Intelligence!) Getting back to the Barbarians, however, I think that they, to, should have Espionage points that they can use to commit random acts of Sabotage (aka terrorism) against civs. It should be possible, however, for a civ to open diplomatic channels with the barbarians and either pay them money (or resources) to either stop them from targetting your Civ, or to get them to target one of your enemies (and thus keeping your hands clean)!!!
Anyway, I think that would work a lot better than the old Diplomat/Spy Unit!!!

Yours,
The Aussie_Lurker

[Martinus]

I like your idea, Aussie Lurker, but I don't know whether it will not complicate the game too much, making it more MOO- rather than Civ-like.

Another option can be to simply require money to stage a terrorist attack.

What about barbarians (terrorists) - well, they can have money from 3 sources:
1. conquered cities (obviously),

2. money paid to them in exchange for not attacking/sabotaging (there was something like that in Civ2 - now, if we have barbarian spies and diplomats, they can simply approach the city and demand like 100@ for not poisoning the city wells etc.),

3. some of the corruption money - the money from corruption has to go somewhere - why don't give some of it to barbarians/terrorists - this would make fighting corruption/criminal infrastructure/etc. all the more useful.

BTW, I know my ideas are not ideal. However I believe they can be applied without tweaking the current Civ model (unless Spies/Diplomats have been completely revisited in Civ3) - so hopefully my ideas could even be introduced in Civ3

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Actually Martinus, my idea is a tweaking of the Espionage model used in "Birth of the Federation" (a game which I REALLY enjoy BTW), all I did was to massively simplify it so it will fit into the Civ game. I feel, though, that with the massive change to Civs trade model, and the subsequent demise of the caravan (yay), that we may very well see the same thing happen to the model for espionage (ie. bye, bye Spy!!!) If that happens, then I think the model I've mentioned would definitely fill that gap.

The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Kurgan]

One thing would be intelligence, spies and things like that, and another to support and finance terrorism. But if the option of financing terrorism and support it, directed against other civ is put in place, it should be added the possibility that when you change government the terrorist group, that for example was created when your country was a Soviet Republic starts attacking you and asking another civ that is under Communist rule to help them to revert your country to the "true way of Comunism". This will add the backfire option, and will make think twice before supporting a bunch of bastards.