Ahh - I can't built any units!

[Fiil]

Scenario:
I just discovered gunpowder, so all my medieval units gets obsolete and I can't built them anymore.
Until the discovery of gunpowder all salpetre resources on the map were hidden, so I didn't know where they were.
Now, I find that they all lie out of my reach. My opponents haven't made the discovery yet, so I can't trade the resource from them either.
While I travel around the world beginning to construct distant colonies and connect them to my cities. Meanwhile my enemies continue to launch armies of knights and catapults against my cities. But I - Ahh - I can't built any units!!

Any comments?

[tuckson]

hmmmm...

Sounds highly hypothetical.
If you find that no apprpriate resources are available at that very moment, you might consider the fact that you haven't expanded enough.

However, I guess such resources will be higly available, otherwise the gameplay would be affected to much and I think Firaxis wouldn't let that happen.

But indeed, theoretically it seems possible.

Grtx.

[tishco]

that happened on civII, cos u had all these fighty legions then gunpowder makes them rubbish and you have to backtrack to knights for good atacking.
thats rubbish, in 17th C or whatever when guns came knights were gone!

[tuckson]

not really...

Well, actually gunpowder was found in Europe already somewhere around 1300 AD.

Check this out:
Gunpowder at encarta

Grtx

[Fiil]

Too hypothetical? I guess it could be!

But let's say the salpetre tiles do lie inside your farflung empire, but you are unlucky - you haven't roaded those tiles!
It will still take a few turns before you do. These turns might prove fatal to newly found cities and cities under siege which are unable to build pikemen or musketmen.

I do hope fireaxis has solved this by establishing a new obsolete system. One where you can always build an older unit if you suddenly are unable to build the newest.

[Skanky Burns]

I doubt that the discovery will obsolete ALL the military units you can build... If it did, then Firaxis would have already come across the scenario that you have suggested and fixed it up.

[Fiil]

When are resources visible?

I thought of another question!

If another civilization discovers gunpowder before you will you then be able to see the salpetre tiles?

It would make sense if you would. Because eventhough you don't know what to use it for, you should still be able to sell the stuff to you rivals.
"Hey I don't know what this **** is, but if he's foolish enough to pay me, I'm gonna mine it!"
Maybe he would get it cheaper from you, if you didn't know what it was.

[Tventano]

This problem could happen in Imperialism II.

e.g. if you discovered "Early Rifles" you could no longer build calivermen but had to build skirmishers as light infantry. Skirmishers are better than calivermen, but they take steel instead of bronze Some other types went from iron to steel. If you did not mine coal yet or had not discovered "Crucible Process" you could not produce steel.
Took me quite some time to find out what happened and how to prevent this kind of problem.

I agree with Skanky Burns that this will not be the case in Civ3, otherwise they would have met the problem yet. Ofcourse it could happen that you do not have salpeter, so you can not built any musketeers, so find it, trade it or conquer it.

Fiil, I understand that as long you did not invent a technology that you cannot see the resource. Ofcourse your neighbour could tell you, and give you the technology for free, thank you. Probably they will not tell you. Or perhaps they walk around your territory and suddenly attack your very small uninteresting part of the world which you never seriously developed, because there was nothing of interest there. A more peaceloving Civ would propose you to trade a larger city for a smaller city of you which would have access to the resource, which you do not yet know about. I hope the AI will try to outsmart the player.

[Gramphos]

I hope that units don't get obsolete until you can build the next unit, and if you cant build it again, you shall get back the ability of building older units.

[Inverse Icarus]

Firaxis alread said that resources will be more then plentiful on the map.

what would musketeers require to build? iron? im pretty sure everyone will have iron working if you have gunpowder.

::crosses fingers::

[EDIT] I dont think that "gunpowder" is a resource on the map. i may be wrong.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Fiil
Too hypothetical? I guess it could be!

But let's say the salpetre tiles do lie inside your farflung empire, but you are unlucky - you haven't roaded those tiles!
It will still take a few turns before you do. These turns might prove fatal to newly found cities and cities under siege which are unable to build pikemen or musketmen.

I do hope fireaxis has solved this by establishing a new obsolete system. One where you can always build an older unit if you suddenly are unable to build the newest.

Oh don't be such a wimp!!! Adapt and overcome!
-seize some from your neighbors
-trade for it
-avoid war for a couple turns
-grow some guts...dont' expect the game to be so easy

[TCO]

Originally posted by Fiil
Too hypothetical? I guess it could be!

But let's say the salpetre tiles do lie inside your farflung empire, but you are unlucky - you haven't roaded those tiles!
It will still take a few turns before you do. These turns might prove fatal to newly found cities and cities under siege which are unable to build pikemen or musketmen.

I do hope fireaxis has solved this by establishing a new obsolete system. One where you can always build an older unit if you suddenly are unable to build the newest.

Don't be such a wimp! Road to the squares and deal with the situation while doing so.

[Gramphos]

GP, what kind of double post is that? Answering the same quote with two different formulations, but with the same point. I think you have made a mistake.

UberKruX,
You are probably right, but what if someone creates a map without a specific resource? Will the units be obsolete anyway, or will they stay available until the next level is reached?

[Inverse Icarus]

interesting proposal gramphos.

a world without oil.

i honestly dont know the answer now.

SPAM THE CIV TEAM!

[Falconius]

Originally posted by GP
Oh don't be such a wimp!!! Adapt and overcome!
-seize some from your neighbors
-trade for it
-avoid war for a couple turns
-grow some guts...dont' expect the game to be so easy

Here, here! I totally agree.

I for one hope there are at least occasional situations where you do have resource emergencies. And if the game doesn't generate them, then I plan on creating scenarios that do (I'm sure others will, too).

This is going to be freaking great! Some of you seem to be worried that this is so different from Civ II. That's a good thing. This ain't your father's Civilization: It's Civ III !!!