AI Cheats

[Executor]

What kind of cheats will the AI have at its disposal?

The bonuses assigned to the computer in Civ2:
1. Ddepending on the difficulty level, had huge reductions in shield count
2 Could bribe enemy units using any of their units, not just diplomats or spies
3. No pollution
4. Could change production during other player's turns.
5. Only took one turn to change government types, whether or not they had the Statue of Liberty

While I don't mind 1 and 3, the rest should not be included in CivIII. The computer should win on its merits, not by outcheating the player.

[Urban Ranger]

None. Not allowed.

[Sabre2th]

The technology simply doesn't exist to make a truly smart AI. Some cheating will have to occur for it to be challenging.

[Urban Ranger]

Screw that argument.

I don't mind giving the computer players advantages at higher levels, however, these must be (a) known and (b) customisable.

A good way to make better computer players is to make the AI routines programmable by players.

[Mister Pleasant]

A good way to make better computer players is to make the AI routines programmable by players.

If you really feel that way, Urban Ranger, why aren't you worshiping at the altar of WesW? Sounds like another CTP concept to me . . .

[star mouse]

Some AI cheating is inevitable. Without it, it would be difficult to manage levels of difficulty. One AI cheat that will almost certainly be present is AI's needing fewer shields to build improvements or train troops at higher difficulty levels. Another cheat you will see is the AI having information that you lack such as the location of your civilization. These are necessary to make the game challenging. Would you rather have a challenging AI with a few innocuous cheats, or a weak AI that makes you lose interest in the game after a few weeks?

[Mister Pleasant]

One AI cheat that will almost certainly be present is AI's needing fewer shields to build improvements or train troops at higher difficulty levels. Another cheat you will see is the AI having information that you lack such as the location of your civilization.

Agreed. Without those cheats the AI is at a severe disadvantage when dealing with a veteran civer who really knows how to place workers and improvements and optimize resource allocation. Kind of like how a chess AI runs brute force through possible moves while master human players "chunk" small bits of information together.

The thing I'm worried about, however, is the tendency of the AI to into armaggedon mode at the end even if you've been friendly and helpful ala civ2. If the AI players gang up without cause, then firaxis has really wasted their time setting up their new diplomacy system. I think I'm entitled to play sometimes as a warmonger and other times as a green/diplomat. SMAC wasn't as bad, but still had a bit of a gang-up factor.

[Lemmy]

i agree with UR

Screw that argument.

the rest is true, look at space empires 4, the AI is programmable by users and if it's still easy, you can choose low/medium/high bonuses for the AI. In fact, the best AI for SE4 is made by the players.

if there is a cheating AI i at least want an option to turn it off.

Would you rather have a challenging AI with a few innocuous cheats, or a weak AI that makes you lose interest in the game after a few weeks?

i've been playing SE4 for 7 months now, with the original non-cheating AI, it has been improved with several patches.
I'm still winning the game, but then you would also win a difficult civ2 game with numerous AI-cheats.

I think it's possible to make a non-cheating AI, especially with the faster computers now, the programmer doesn't have to worry about how long one turn will take.

[The Viceroy]

It is quite possible to create an AI that learns and adapts .. however, I doubt that Sid is the kind of guy to take such a risky approach to CIV3 .. not with the expectations placed on it. The AI will most certainly be rule based only, and in that case, will require some level of cheat. It is possible to create some pretty impressive rule based AI's .. but they are limited to the imagination of the programmers at the time.

I would though ask Sid to consider Neural nets in some future project, as it needs to have a proven track record before being accepted into the world of CIV. You can provide a rule based AI as a base, and then program for experience .. allowing the AI to learn ... it is then possible to save AI knowledge .. the best players of Civ will have produced the hardest AI's (most learned).. and these can be placed on Apolyton to challenge us all.

Such code needs heavy use before I would advice using it in something like Civ ..

[campmajor!]

Sounds promising, that neural net thing. It would be really cool if the AI actually improved over time.

The only negative thing about it would be that it will become too addictive...

[Nenad]

1. I hate when AI cheats. It's more important to improve AI then to introduce animated units or something like that. Firaxis should spend more time on AI improving (if it's still like it was in civ2).

2. On the other hand, I often cheat (and probably many others) in combat by saving position and reloading it till I win the battle, althought i'm not a warmonger. So I suppose that i deserve that AI cheats on me, too.

[RedWhiteArcher]

You forgot that AI always knows where you have an undeffended city even I he has no contact with you.

[Gatekeeper]

Everyone:

I'll be happy if the programmers can create an AI that knows how to properly use an aircraft carrier. And to load its subs to the max with missiles, instead of just one to three missiles.

Small favors make me happy.

CYBERAmazon

[Mister Pleasant]

I'll be happy if the programmers can create an AI that knows how to properly use an aircraft carrier.

CYBERAmazon, don't hold your breath.

1. I hate when AI cheats. It's more important to improve AI then to introduce animated units or something like that. Firaxis should spend more time on AI improving (if it's still like it was in civ2).

I agree with you here, Nenad. AI is what I'm worried about, not animations. But I assure you, the AI has to have some cheats to counter a human's ability to deal with information in large chunks.

[TechWins]

I'm going to make a very optimistic remark and say that the AI will be great. There won't be any or very little at most cheating by the AI. The AI will be so good that it will be compared to EU's AI. There I said it.