Scary CTP !! Boooh !

[monkspider]

I am a CTP fiend as well Mr Pleasent, not to the degree that I am a Civ fiend, but I nonetheless agree with the majority of your points. One statement I would disagree with is the assertment that CTP has better Wonders than Civ 2. I have always found them to be interesting, and even artsy (Contraception, Ramayana, Egalitarian Act), some make interesting points about society (Zero Crime Bill, World Peace Center, Hollywood) and some are just frickin' cool (Dino Park! The coolest wonder EVER) but they rarely had the sense of "wonder" that I would get from building The Great Library, The Colossus, or SETI. Plus, some of the CTP wonders are simply lame concepts (The Agency?? Empire State Building?) and have gone from being too powerful in general in the first CTP to a little too weak for my liking in CTP 2.
I love CTP, but the wonders are one area in which it unquestionably comes up short.
If i could suggest but one thing to the makers of CTP 3, More Dino Park, less Empire State Building.

[Mister Pleasant]

Monkeyspider:

I don't think the wonders of CTP were so much better than Civ, just that Civ had some clunkers in it too. Emancipation Act, Appian Way, and Field Dynamics all pretty much blew. But the Empire State Building really is a very cool building - the archetypal modernist building. An influence to all skyscrapers that came later but with more flair. I think we're on the same page except with respect to a certain building.

[monkspider]

Fair enough
I just hope they bring back Dino Park in a future CTP installment, or it is perhaps incorported into Civ 3 by means of an ambitious young mod maker
To be fair to CTP, I would love for Civ 3 to incorporate many of the more abstract, philosophical wonders that CTP is famous for. (Think Contraception, Zero Crime Bill, Egalitarian Act, etc)

[phoenixcager]

Originally posted by monkspider
a future CTP installment,

That's just not going to happen.....there won't be any more sequels to CtP.

[Mister Pleasant]

I don't know pheonixcager, Bill Gates may be looking to monopolize the turn-based strategy market. And Microsoft might figure, "What the hell! We'll put out a flawed civ3 and let WesW/Dale/Locutus fix it for free!" CTP3 will come free on all new PCs, displacing Civ (or screwing it up if anyone tries to install it) but patches will cost $10 each and come out every month. Firaxis will sell out to AOL/Time Warner.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Mister Pleasant

- Lack of diverse govenrment types

I think there were too many different goverments in ctp2

Originally posted by Mister Pleasant

- Those same old crappy wonders!

The wonders in CTP1/2 weren't any good, most of those wonders gave me the feeling of that not being a wonder...and the point of wonders where to make them feel like wonders

Originally posted by Mister Pleasant

- No public works system

That's the advantage of the Civ series, there's no PW system

[K.J.H.]

Originally posted by ADG


I think there were too many different goverments in ctp2

hmmm ... maybe ecotopia, technocracy and virtual democracy etc. were too many , but I liked theocracy. However the economy in theocracy was too good. The most powerful nations in CTP1 were theocracies.

Originally posted by ADG
The wonders in CTP1/2 weren't any good, most of those wonders gave me the feeling of that not being a wonder...and the point of wonders where to make them feel like wonders

Emancipation Act is like a real large Sim City 3000 ordinance. But I think 'Acts' and 'Laws' should be in the game.
I think Civ-games should be a little bit based on the Sim City ordinance system or the Tropico edict system. Like:
- Martial Law (requires Monarchy)
- Anticontraception Ban (requires Fundamentalism)
- Woman Emancipation (requires Democracy)
- Anti-Racism Campaign (requires Democracy)
- Propaganda Spreading(requires Nationalism)
- Capital Punishment (requires Code of Laws)
etc. etc.
Wonders must be BUILDINGS.
And REAL buildings.
Adam Smith's Trading Company is completely nonsense.

Originally posted by ADG
That's the advantage of the Civ series, there's no PW system

I agree!
However I think the fisheries of CTP are quite usefull.
And I haven't seen a swimming settler in Civ
maybe a fisher's boat as a settler-on-water-unit

[Adagio]

Originally posted by K.J.H.

Emancipation Act is like a real large Sim City 3000 ordinance. But I think 'Acts' and 'Laws' should be in the game.
I think Civ-games should be a little bit based on the Sim City ordinance system or the Tropico edict system. Like:
- Martial Law (requires Monarchy)
- Anticontraception Ban (requires Fundamentalism)
- Woman Emancipation (requires Democracy)
- Anti-Racism Campaign (requires Democracy)
- Propaganda Spreading(requires Nationalism)
- Capital Punishment (requires Code of Laws)
etc. etc.

That's the way it should be

Originally posted by K.J.H.
Wonders must be BUILDINGS.
And REAL buildings.
Adam Smith's Trading Company is completely nonsense.

Defently...Wonders is the same thing as buildings

Originally posted by K.J.H.
I agree!
However I think the fisheries of CTP are quite usefull.
And I haven't seen a swimming settler in Civ
maybe a fisher's boat as a settler-on-water-unit

You're right, a "settler" boat is what we need, otherwise I can live without the fisheries

[Mister Pleasant]

That's the advantage of the Civ series, there's no PW system

.

Read the rest of that post - that's exactly the point I'm making. Civ and CTP should diverge a little bit. No point in having exactly the same game twice.

I don't know about making all of the wonders buildings though. Sure, the seven wonders of the ancient world were all buildings (and I would point out that neither civ1 nor civ2 used the actual list), but I take it the wonderousness of the Great Library was not the architecture, but rather the scholarship it facilitated. Besides I've often heard the internet called the 8th wonder of the world - but it isn't located in a building. Besides, other than the Empire State Building, maybe the VAB, and possibly that giant antenna in Toronto, what buildings would qualify as wonders today?

[Myrddin]

Civ III is going to be a very different game to CTP2+mod

Civ III will have few bugs, be well balanced, have good graphics and will be biased towards peaceful development and co-existence (if only because it is easier to develop a good AI for negotiating than for combat). However I am not sure that it will seem challenging enough for vetran civers with relatively small numbers of advances and units - much will depend on how easy it is to modify and add civilisations, units etc

CTP+mod will be much more interesting if you just want to conquer the world

[Mister Pleasant]

CTP+mod will be much more interesting if you just want to conquer the world

I don't know about that. The logistics of securing resources and dealing with culture could make for an interesting conquest-type challenge.

[K.J.H.]

Originally posted by Mister Pleasant
I don't know about making all of the wonders buildings though. Sure, the seven wonders of the ancient world were all buildings (and I would point out that neither civ1 nor civ2 used the actual list), but I take it the wonderousness of the Great Library was not the architecture, but rather the scholarship it facilitated. Besides I've often heard the internet called the 8th wonder of the world - but it isn't located in a building. Besides, other than the Empire State Building, maybe the VAB, and possibly that giant antenna in Toronto, what buildings would qualify as wonders today?

Hmmm you are right. But like the Emancipation Act of CTP ... why do you need the shields for? For making a pen, a piece of paper and some ink? That's why I think the Emancipation Act should be some 'law' or 'ordinance' of SimCity 3000 or the 'edicts' of Tropico.

[Mister Pleasant]

Hmmm you are right. But like the Emancipation Act of CTP ... why do you need the shields for?

I thought the exact same thing the first time I played CTP1!

Of course, now that I think about it, the VAB would make a pretty cool minor wonder each civ can build. Then again, that antenna in Toronto is much cooler than the Eiffel Tower . . . Hmmm, do I see an idea for a mod here . . .

[M. le Comte]

We are just getting very far away from the realistic Wonder concept, with the CTP's wonder. I know that civ needs more than the seven genuine ones, but however...

[XarXo]

When I played CTP2 I start at the middle level, I played the Incans at the World Map ??scenario??, well, I fund Qosqo (not "Cuzco" or "Cusco" as the game, the historical accurancy is IMPORTANT!!), and appeared an... Arabian city??? Well, I continued making cities... Etc... I win the game only making "End Turn", I don't know what I made... I Played? CTP was an horrible game, I don't feel any kind of relationship with it... Is too confusing... That strange units, that strange sounds... AGH. I HATE it!

Sincerely, I believe that the CTP creators never played its own game.