The Pikeman Problem

[DarkCloud]

In Civ II there were a few 'useless' units such as the Pikeman.
In Civ III hopefully we won't have to deal with these units.

An indepth look at the Pikeman

+Bonuses versus mounted foes
However, it is weaker than the Phalanx against other foes in cities.

You can also skip over the Pikeman's tech, Feudalism in the tech tree and research Musketeers instead of Pikemen to guard your cities after Phalanxes.

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There are 2 problems here to realize

1. In civ you shouldn't be able to bypass a unit to a unit that does the same thing, but better and replaces the bypassed unit.

2. A unit upgrade should be better than the unit is replacing or else it shouldn't replace a unit.

[Civ Pi(3.14)Fan]

The pikeman has the same defensive value as a phalnx (2),& has the 50% bonus vs. movement factor of two. In other word the pikeman is better than the phalnx, just not in every stat

[Inverse Icarus]

i've said this way too much.

IN ORDER TO ADVANCE TO THE NEXT AGE YOU MUST COMPLETE MOST OF THE CURRENT AGE'S TECH TREE.

so you might actually be forced to use pikemen for a while.

[Dauphin]

Another problem of this kind is that some units become obsolete before you can build and use them.

[DarkCloud]

i.e. the Pikeman... Yes, but who here has used the Pikeman's movement bonus?

I didn't know that about the defense, it seemed as if the Pikemen were horrible on defense, however.

[Theben]

Re: The Pikeman Problem

Originally posted by DarkCloud
There are 2 problems here to realize

1. In civ you shouldn't be able to bypass a unit to a unit that does the same thing, but better and replaces the bypassed unit.

2. A unit upgrade should be better than the unit is replacing or else it shouldn't replace a unit.

1. Why not? Is it so important that one unit must be used before advancing to the next age? Most nations didn't even deploy pikemen, but almost all had an army equipped with firearms of a sort.

2. Pikeman is stronger than both the warrior unit and the phalanx. In addition, the feudalism tech offers STWA, a very useful wonder to warmongers.

My beef with the pikeman and the phalanx is that they should have had a Attack rating of 2, not 1. Easily fixed in the rules.txt.

[ChrisShaffer]

Pikemen are the units that solved the Civ1 chariot rush. They are great units.

[DrFell]

Pikemen are very good units, far better than warriors or phalanxes. In 2x2x duels feudalism is the first tech I go for after monarchy, you simply can't afford to miss out on the far better defence offered (plus the chance to build Sun Tzu's).

[Sabre2th]

While I rarely used them, I don't see a problem. (I usually used archers early on and went straight to musketeers)

[JellyDonut]

They may seem to be worse at defense because they come later in the game and are thus attacked by more advanced units.

[Alex 14]

When your enemies strike your cities with horsemen, pikemen make their atacks completely useless.

[Sean]

Personally I do not believe that there is a "pikeman problem". And that the these sort of units, even if you skip them, add more depth to the game.

I also found the pikeman unit rather functional.

[Civ Pi(3.14)Fan]

Originally posted by Sean
Personally I do not believe that there is a "pikeman problem". And that the these sort of units, even if you skip them, add more depth to the game.

I also found the pikeman unit rather functional.

I agree, if you don't like them, don't use them, but they are quite effective against ponies

[S. Kroeze]

Re: The Pikeman Problem

Originally posted by DarkCloud
In Civ II there were a few 'useless' units such as the Pikeman.
In Civ III hopefully we won't have to deal with these units.

An indepth look at the Pikeman

+Bonuses versus mounted foes
However, it is weaker than the Phalanx against other foes in cities.

You can also skip over the Pikeman's tech, Feudalism in the tech tree and research Musketeers instead of Pikemen to guard your cities after Phalanxes.

Are you kidding? I couldn't disagree more!
Against non-mounted units Pikemen and Phalanx are equal in all respects.

Historically pikemen do not make sense at all. Essentially they were identical to a phalanx, I'll have to admit that.

But in the game they were excellent units for defense, in my opinion equal to musketeers, AND cheaper!
I always was angry when Leonardo changed my bold veteran Pikemen to silly non-veteran Musketeers. It always made border cities more vulnerable to attack and is the main reason I will not bother to build this generally overrated Wonder. The main advantage was that you could disband units and get more shields in return than they did cost in producing.

But how would one defend unwalled (and walled) cities effectively in Medieval times without those excellent Pikemen?

[Civ Pi(3.14)Fan]

Actually I think the pikeman in the game represents new tactics and greater flexibility