Alpha - Beta - Gold - Sold?

[death_head]

Keep in mind that if you try to look for weaknesses in a game, you're not going to have as much fun than if you sit down, relax, and enjoy yourself...

[yin26]

Keep in mind that if you try to look for weaknesses in a game, you're not going to have as much fun than if you sit down, relax, and enjoy yourself...

That's a very good point. In fact, I have stopped going to most fan sites just for that reason. In the case of Black and White, for example, I know for a fact I could log in and start finding every minute problem, cheat and strategy ever devise. I'd pretty much know the whole game inside and out before ever playing. So I am waiting for one more patch and will discover it all on my own.

However, "looking" for a weakness vs. having the weakness slap you in the face is quite another story. In the case of Civ players, most of us are analytical people. You kind of have to be to enjoy trying to maximize production outputs, etc. This necessarily leads at some point to people noticing even small things: "Hey, the production bonus isn't calculating correctly."

But what I'm talking about are MAJOR things, like crashes, corrupted saved games, missing/broken features, utterly empty AI, errant graphics (like the sea bases in SMAC). And frankly, unless there is some secret undergroung beta that has been going on a good long while here, an October release means one thing: MASSIVE Civ3 failure. Period. Now, push that back to May and things are looking much better.

[TechWins]

How about end of June and July go to Beta testing? Whens the last time we've seen an update, news snipit, etc straight from the horses mouth? When was that slide show of screenshots explaining Resources put up? Wasn't it like early June or even end of May? From then to July... What have they been doing? I'm sure its not re-inventing the wheel. They already have new additions to the game added... the only thing left logicaly is minor things. Like graphics, bug hunting, and beta testing.

The slide show of the resources was put up May 11. From then to July I know one thing that they haven't been doing, giving us information about Civ3.

We could really determine how good the game will be if we knew when these screenshots were taken. If June then we are in trouble but if it was about January we still might get a good game.

I think tniem said in a seperate thread that the ad about the October release could have been issused to the magazine before they changed the date at the infogamers site. So we never know. Either way I think Civ3 should be a good game but I still don't like the manner in how Firaxis treated the public while creating the game.

[joseph1944]

Originally posted by MarkG
have they mentioned the number 12 as a fact?

I petty sure way back when they said 12 at that time, however we all know that Activision was going to release more scenarios then cancel them.

[Urban Ranger]

Markos is right!

Yin you're a silly goose.

Changing graphics in Civ doesn't affect the game at all. How else could scenarios and modpacks work in Civ 2?

[yin26]

Actually, that's my point as well. The gameplay STAYS THE SAME. Thus, if I'm going to pay $50 for basically the same gameplay, I damn well at least better have something pretty(er) to stare at.

EDIT: ...I get your point now...

What I am referring to is in SMAC they missed some art. I believe it was when a land city gets "sunk" or whatever it never changes to a water city...or something. I've tried to block the whole SMAC experience from my mind, but Firaxis admitted the mistake. Can't remember if it was ever fixed, though.

[Urban Ranger]

Com'on, you know there's at least something new in Civ 3.

What I was really getting at was Firaxis could have the artists work indepdently of the programmers. The program can be beta tested while the graphics are refined and improved. These new graphics can be put on top of the beta program like a new skin, using one of the "cyberspace" buzzwords.

[yin26]

Ah, I see now what you mean. Of course, what you are saying works in theory. In fact, when all these "safe" art changes are made moments before the CD is mastered, we all know the kind of hell that can ensue. And it's not just last minute art. Last minute ANYTHING can have horrible effects. For one example, the Age of Kings people (and I have great respect for ES) made a last minute AI change for the easy setting on the game. Well, guess what? Turns out that "safe and tiny" change actually made the computer resign automatically a few minutes into the game.

Mind you, it's not like having an unplayable easy setting was the end of the world or anything (heck, I never even played it), but the lesson was clear enough: Last minute changes can kill things in a game in most unexpected ways.

[Urban Ranger]

Clearly Murphy's Law was at work

I tend to believe the Firaxis people have the separation of code and graphics down to an art form, though, being the heir to Civ 2, master of scenarios and modpacks.

Right now we have a whole bunch of young whippersnapper companies that do these "skin" changes all the time, e.g. Winamp. Also you can get a lot of themes and skins for Windows, and Stardock is going a long way with Desktop X.

So you see, it's quite a safe operation. Won't hurt a bit

[yin26]

LOL! O.K. O.K. I give.

[Zanzin]

Seeing as noones said "But gameplay is infinately more important than graphics and I don't care if we have civ1 graphics"........actually, I won't say that, because at the end of the day, the graphics are actually important. Admitedly, not as important as gameplay, but.....from what we've seen, and in one review I'd read that the artists at Firaxis had devloped something like 12 000 differnt tiles during the last 2 years of production....I'm very upset that they haven't come up with better than what we've seen already.

[Fidel]

but it cannot be, simply cannot be....
there is so much money at stake that i simply cannot imagine them hiring daltonists to produce idiotic maps like we have been shown before. it has to be jpg deterioration or something. note that civ3 resources tutorial and shakycam footage show a different pallete of the game and much nicer graphics. it really cannot be.....
someone here posted an article about producing a game. you do the maths and see if you would like to screw up investment that big because of a road going over the mountain top. i say - no way....
still, the way firaxis handles the webpage issue is really chilling. if it were not for occassional sightings at apolyton, i'd guess they had been closed down.

[TechWins]

but it cannot be, simply cannot be.... there is so much money at stake that i simply cannot imagine them hiring daltonists to produce idiotic maps like we have been shown before. it has to be jpg deterioration or something. note that civ3 resources tutorial and shakycam footage show a different pallete of the game and much nicer graphics. it really cannot be.....

You make a good point there. The resource tutorial's graphics look pretty good actually. That's why I think a lot of these screenshots we're seeing could be from a long time ago. Possibly as long ago as January. Maybe I'm dreaming or maybe I have too many maybies. Well, with what little info. we know that's all we can have, maybies.