Great Wall is way too powerful: change it like this

[tniem]

Originally posted by Dida
It's impossible for any invader to walk around Great Wall, because it stretchs from the east coast all the way to the very west end of China.
Great Wall was built to keep invaders out, not in. no doubt about that.

The problem with this thought is that for most of the walls history it was not complete. The builders would build one large stretch and then stop. A couple hundred years later they would add another stretch. It wasn't until the 1400s that they finally completed the stupid wall and then found it was not even able to defend the nation.

From the History Channel:

Great Wall of China

Fortifications winding c.1,500 mi (2,400 km) across N China from Gansu prov. to the Yellow Sea. It is an amalgamation of many walls, first united (3d cent. B.C.) by the Ch'in dynasty. The present form dates substantially from the Ming dynasty (1368-1644) and averages 25 ft (7.6 m) in height. Successive invasions of China by northern nomads proved the wall to be of little military utility.

As I understand, the 25 ft height was not enough to keep invaders from simply climbing the walls when no one was around or bribing guards to let them in. Now crossing the wall took time, but it was not hard. Invaders could easily enter China from the north. It was getting out that proved to be harder. If you lost a battle and were chased north, a Chinese army could follow in pursuit while another army sat in wait at the wall. You were trapped. So the wall was easy to get through, it was leaving that was the problem.

[Dida]

On that you are right, the Great Wall isn't too useful in keeping the enemy out. But it give people a sense of security, and easy deployment of troops. (sometimes, they use the great wall to quickly transport troops to the hot spots).

[death_head]

In response to the Maginot line comment, I would just like to point out that the French were morons for just sitting there.

HEY! YOU! COME ATTACK THE WALL! HEY WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING! YOU CAN'T GO AROUND THAT WAY IT'S OFF LIMITS!

The great wall helps because you can sort of create a choke, which is a good thing, not a bad one.

[Alexander's Horse]

Great wall really a fence

I heard the real purpose of the Great Wall was to make it difficult for raiders to take loot out.

[colossus]

I am always thinking that the Great Wall was intended to prevent small bands of barbarians(say, 30) from raiding North China. Without the Wall, it would be impossible to protect the agricultural lives of North China, who would be subjected to constant, small scale raidings throughout the year. Large scale invasion is another matter. I don't think there were any major invasions stopped by the Wall, not even once. Major invasions had to be averted by a combination of politics, bribery and military power.

[joseph1944]

This is a game. Leave the Wall as is.

[TVA22]

colossus is correct

Collossus is correct, the Great Wall was built to repell small bands of raiders, particularly ones on horseback. It was also used as a transportation system, for troop deployment yes, but even moreso to send information back and fourth across the empire swiftly. It's not like the Chinese were dumb, and actually believed the wall would keep a determined army from invading, since a single battering ram could, given the time, breach the Wall.
Also, I have actually been over to China to see the Great Wall in person, and it is an impressive sight to behold, and the disrespectful references to the Chinese people and the "stupid wall" in this thread are really quite irritating, and it would do some people a lot of good to remember once in a while, the world is a lot bigger, and a lot older than the European civilizations who have stollen the spotlight in the last few centuries.

[Provost Harrison]

What we have to remember is that this is a game. We have the chance to lay down the great wall, which is a pretty impressive creation. A sensible role would be what it requires, and a fun one...there is obviously going to be an associated increase in cultural status...

[Dida]

ok, my question is, what does physically laying down the great wall do? does it make other Civs impossible to pass the wall? If you have long border with the other guy, can the great wall make sure it can cut off all the border? (in reality, it does). if it can do so, than it's pretty neat. if the guy is always invading you, and on your ass, you can build the wall and block him outl
Someone mention Grand Canal would work the same. so if we have a big city on top of a hill, with lots of production, we can build ship in this city, and then sail them out to sea?

[Urban Ranger]

The Great Wall is just this gigantic fortification that starts at the sea and goes a long way to the west, snaking around in mountain ranges. Like all fortifications, it can be breached. Also like all fortifications, it's meant to give the defenders as much advantages as possible over the attackers. The Manchus wouldn't have gotten into China, or at least would take them a lot longer, if not for a Chinese officer opening the gate at one of the forts.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by War4ever
Horse.....would the walls move forward with the increasing size of your empire? after all, China's borders have changed significantly over the years

That's why the Great Wall was rebuilt over the centuries. The Great Wall we see today was completed during the Ming dynasty.

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Dida
Someone mention Grand Canal would work the same. so if we have a big city on top of a hill, with lots of production, we can build ship in this city, and then sail them out to sea?

AFAIK, Grand Canal was mentioned as a way to connect two different seas, crossing some tiles of a continent. It's not meant to be a way to connect an inland town to the shore.

Of course, as for Great Wall effect in game you ask, I think only God and Firaxis designer really know (and I'm not 100% sure for the latter ).

Praying and Asking For A Sign could still be the best bet for an answer.

[Recurve]

As map sizes will be larger and more crowded, why not provide 2 Grand Canal Wonders?

[death_head]

Now that would be cool...it can't be that bad to have two Wonders...

[tniem]

Originally posted by Recurve
As map sizes will be larger and more crowded, why not provide 2 Grand Canal Wonders?

Or since I am positive that Firaxis has confirmed minor wonders that every civ can build make em that. And have a possible one major wonder that gives some type of bonus.