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  • On updating obsolete units

    One of the things that really bugged me with all civ games (except SMAC) was the way that obsolete units like phalanx and the like lasted down and past the twentieth century. Will this be addressed in Civ3???? I hope so. If its not on the agenda I think I have a basic model to help slowly update obsolete units as the ages move on.

    I think there should be a feature that enables a player to convert a % of their gold earned each turn to modernising and replacing their forces. This would work much like the way CTP's public works scheme acts. You should also be able to set the % rate, the maximum level being dependent on the govt type (a militaristic govt would have a higher rate than a democracy for example). The rate of replacement depends on the percentage level set at and the overall amount of gold coming in. For example, a large civ with 10000 gold per turn and a high repacement level (say 50%) would upgrade its units at a rate of 5000 gold per turn. A smaller civ earning 5000 gold with an replacement level of only 20% would only be able to repace its units at a level of 1000 gold per turn.

    I hope all this is clear so far....

    When a new unit becomes available, say a rifleman obsoletes a musketeer, I propose a system where the player, like in SMAC, can choose what obsolete units can be converted to and the cost of each individual conversion. For example the cost of replacing Phalanx with rifleman might cost 6000 gold per unit. On the other hand converting the remaining phalanx to musketeers might only cost 3000 gold. A player therefore has the choice as to whether they want a quicker but not as effective rearmament programme or a slower but more potent one??? Any questions, criticisms, comments????? I'd aprreciate a response on this top Firaxis

  • #2
    Since it is a feature that appeared in SMAC I would not expect it to be removed from Civ III unless they had a very good reason to do so.
    To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
    H.Poincaré

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    • #3
      The nature of SMAC with its sci-fi slant enabled Firaxis to create a system of weaponry, chassis, armour etc as well as unit types that enabled a fluid and unique way of building a units. With Civ3, it wont be as easy to build custom units etc so I'm not sure whether this feature will remain. Firaxis??

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      • #4
        I believe it's already been established that there will be no custom units in Civ3.
        Lime roots and treachery!
        "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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        • #5
          We're talking ability to upgrade for a cost, not custom unit design. I believe it is beneficial to the game to allow a nation to pay to upgrade its spearment to musketeers once it has learned the technology. It makes it far less likely to encounter mixed hotch-potch armies of spearmen, musketeers and riflemen all guarding the same AI city in the 20th century.
          To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
          H.Poincaré

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          • #6
            I always hated that. It never failed that my tanks ended up attacking an idoit civ that still had musketters when they could buld something better.

            The unit upgrade feature is one of the few things I like in SMAC, I really hope that it makes it way into Civ3. The gradual upgrade idea is a good one too. May be they will give us both.

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            • #7
              Yeah, there definitely needs to be some facility to allow this to happen. It is also another issue of minimising micromanagement as well. It is a pain to have to build new units, disband old ones in all your bases, blah, blah, blah, and one that detracts from other tasks that you may want to carry out. It should be at a cost, of course...
              Speaking of Erith:

              "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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              • #8
                I couldn't agree with this more. Having outdated units is the worst, and not realistic either. Are we still employing troops with guns from the 1800's. Of course not. We PAY for better weapons. That's why I think this is an A+ idea that must go in Civ3. It's been implemented in SMAC so it should make it ...
                -=-NakaNaka-=-

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                • #9
                  we all know the AI cheats to no ends, what if all the Japanese warriors/phalanxes got upgraded to Riflemen after they stole a tech, with the 3 million gold they had lying around
                  "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
                  - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

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                  • #10
                    Well I like the idea, just a few idea.

                    First 50% of your gold, going to upgrade your units along with scince. With a buget like that unless you are conquering 5 cities a day you would never make any money. Mabey putting away 5% of your gold away into the kinda of a savings acount for gold. Than when you get the chance you can upgrade your unit with the savings or just from your treasury. Maybe your savings could have interest.

                    When programing the AI just don;t let them cheat on this feature to prevent them from

                    we all know the AI cheats to no ends, what if all the Japanese warriors/phalanxes got upgraded to Riflemen after they stole a tech, with the 3 million gold they had lying around
                    Easy solution.

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                    • #11
                      DEAL WITH IT THEN uber! oh... is that too hard for the little uberkrux!?!?




                      I do love the idea. THEYD BETTER HAVE IT OR I WONT BUY THE GAME DAMMIT!!!!!

                      jk



                      i like smilies
                      And God said "let there be light." And there was dark. And God said "Damn, I hate it when that happens." - Admiral

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                      • #12
                        no im not on crack dammit
                        And God said "let there be light." And there was dark. And God said "Damn, I hate it when that happens." - Admiral

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dainbramaged13
                          no im not on crack dammit
                          yeah, too weak, snorting heroin, thats the way to go!

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                          • #14
                            damn you figured me out
                            And God said "let there be light." And there was dark. And God said "Damn, I hate it when that happens." - Admiral

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                            • #15
                              Well back on topic...

                              I like upgrading units to be back in CivIII. It was a great feature. I've heard in earlier threads on the topic complaints that paying just money would be a bad idea and it should cost shields as well. Well before that arguement comes up again, I think that costing cash only and having the required resources for a unit's construction, I think it should be allowed. ALthough I do think that armored units should not be originally upgraded. Say making a cavalry unit into an armored unit. I think that stretches things. I think that armored, mechanized units should require actual city contruction, not just money.

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