I'm thinking of breakin' out Civ 3 again. What should I know?

[JohnT]

Didn't really care for the "been there, done that" feel of the game the first time I played it, but admit that the past year+ has been very, very busy for me and that I probably didn't give it a fair shot.

Any quick tips for an old Civ-2 player?

[Catt]

Can't think of any useful quick tips other than Civ 3 is a different game than Civ 2 and trying to bring a Civ 2 perspective to it may produce lots of frustration.

(I never played Civ 2 but have heard that view expressed by too many Civ 2 players that now enjoy Civ 3 not to have internalized it!).

If you play and it holds your attention enough to make it worth your while to really start digging into the game, the "Must Read" topped thread in the Strategy Forum is a great resource. It is found here.

Catt

[JohnT]

Thanks. There are so many different threads that I haven't the slightest idea where to begin.

[JohnT]

I also had the video bug (blank screen) but it seems that the patch fixed it.

[vmxa1]

If you have the time and have question, create a thread like you did and post a save and ask for advise. It is a good way to get some input.
I played tons of Civ2 and Test of Time and can say for sure the game looks the same, but it is nothing like it. Resources and culture and a new combat engine make for new tactics.

[Inverse Icarus]

JohnnyT! glad to see you have the time to get some civ in

are you playing vanilla civ (no expansions?)

and as everyone has said, civ3 is a entirely different animal. it's roots are in civ2, but there is a lot more. there are a bunch of changes, and you're going to get pissed off at a few of them, but remember, it IS a different game.

[Arrian]

John,

Whichever version you're using (Vanilla CivIII, PTW, or Conquests), make sure you're patched up. IIRC, this means v 1.29 for CivIII, v.1.27 for PTW, and well, Conquests is kinda a work in progress (beta patch, long story).

The "must read" threads are good, and there is a ton of info there. Other than that, I suggest you hang out in the strategy forum and maybe post some saves of games in progress. Typically, that results in getting a lot of informative feedback.

-Arrian

[JohnT]

I'm playing Vanilla Civ, with patch (needed it to correct the "video gone blank" problem - fixed ).

The differences I noticed so far:

1. You can't just steamroll over everything like you did in Civ 2... have offenses been weakened/defensed strengthened in the early game?

2. Techs don't come as fast as they used to. But then, not adjusting my tech-spending levels for 20 turns didn't help either.

3. I like the borders and the "culture" stuff.

[aoerana]

Read about city placement. Big difference now.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by JohnT
I'm playing Vanilla Civ, with patch (needed it to correct the "video gone blank" problem - fixed ).

The differences I noticed so far:

1. You can't just steamroll over everything like you did in Civ 2... have offenses been weakened/defensed strengthened in the early game?

2. Techs don't come as fast as they used to. But then, not adjusting my tech-spending levels for 20 turns didn't help either.

3. I like the borders and the "culture" stuff.

1. Not really, I don't think so. Well, maybe. I honestly don't remember the CivII unit stats. I do remember that the CivII "fortify" bonus was larger, but I don't think you got the "crossing river" (25% defense bonus) or "larger than size 6, or size 12" (50 and 100%, respectively) city bonuses. You need more units in CivIII... just having a small number of good units isn't enough. Technological superiority is still a big boost, but IIRC, it was HUGE in CivII. My advice: mass upgrades (warrior -> sword, chariot -> horseman) help you put together large ancient era attack forces faster than you could by just building them.

2. They can, depending on what level you're playing on.

3. Yeah, so do I.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

The tech will speed up once you have contacts with all the civs. It moves faster at higher levels, because the AI gets boost.

I think the issue of running over the AI in Civ2 was in large part due to the kill one kill all in CivII. ZoC could be used to hurt the AI.
In CivIII the older units are not completely worthless, that pike can still kill somebody if forted in a city and backed by cannon/longbow. In Civ2, if you have older units, you may as well get rid of them.

[JohnT]

I started as the Americans... from what I'm seeing, I could've made an easier choice. Luckily, I'm playing chieftan level (no desire to frustrate myself this soon in the game).

Also, it seems as if combined arms are more important than just a swarm of one single weapon...

[Kloreep]

The Americans are pretty good due to the Industrious trait, which most players agree is hands-down the best in Vanilla Civ3 and PTW (it was nerfed a little in Conquests to be more balanced with the other traits). Expansionist can also be quite helpful, though I personally don't like the fact the trait dies out after the early game. Their Unique Unit (the F-15) is pretty bad though, since it doesn't come till the last Era by which time things are pretty much decided.

Bombardment units especially are good to combine with your attackers. Make sure to build and use some of them (catapults come first with Mathematics, then Cannons with Metallurgy); they're invaluable when attacking a fortified position where the AI has the advantage. The only downside is they can't keep up with mounted units, forcing you to either leave the bombarders behind or slow down your mounts.

[vmxa1]

Americans took the biggest hit in C3C. Their best trait was IND and it got toned down. The other trait is very map dependant.

So they were decent or better in Civ/PTW and now can be luke warm in C3C and the wron map or location.

[Xorbon]

The best advice I can give to a first time player of Civ3 is to start out on chieftain level in oder to get used to the game.

The difference you are experiencing with combat could be the reduced hit points of the game's units. Hit points used to range from 10 to 30 (40 for battleships) in Civ2, and now they range from 2 to 5. That makes a large difference with randomness. Also, the game is no longer "wait for howitzers and steamroll the enemy" like it was with Civ2. Warfare is viable during any of the game's eras.