Civ 4

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
Not necessarily. A height field doesn't have to be a tile system (unless you really stretch the definition of a tile system). I've seen terrain using an irregular triangular network in the past.

I'm not sure what RTS's you've played, but Ao* (dunno about Mythology, never played it) and C&C:* all use a "hidden" tile-based system. Even in RA2 and C&C:Generals, the "height" system has virtually zero game effect (it's mostly graphical). The RA2 tile height is in fact incremental, not a floating-point number.

(note about Generals: it does use a somewhat refined tile system, but it is not a floating-point coordinate system AFAIK)

EDIT: typos

[WarpStorm]

TINs are very common in the mapping community.

[Kuciwalker]

What's a TIN? (from context I assume you're talking about a non-tile-based map, but I'm not sure)

What do you mean by "mapping community"?

[gopher]

A community that is involved in map making, duh!
There is a great site linked here at Poly that deals with historical maps for every continent, for map making and scenario making usage.

[WarpStorm]

I was thinking of the professional cartographers. Most professional mapping software support Triangular Irregular Networks (TINs) to represent 3D maps. A First Person Shooter modder would consider this as a mesh. Most 3d action and simulation games use some variant of this as opposed to tiles.

RTS games that may have used this technique are Sacrifice, Ground Control, and Populous (whatever the prequel was that had a cool spherical world (and medicore gameplay)).

[vee4473]

Re: Scale-able Maps

Originally posted by JesseSmith
The idea of having the map scale to the Era could be a lot of fun. IE: During the Ancient Era the entire map is actually just a small piece of the eventual game world. When entering the Middle Ages/Industrial/Modern the map expands to encompass a larger portion of the world. By the late Industrial Age (Flight to Satellites) with the growth of technology the entire world (game map) is available. To use the Conquest maps as examples, it would be like going from Mesopotamia to Middle Ages to Epic Game.

By expanding the map for each Era the game world is suddenly dynamic and mysterious. As with RL, as technology advances Distances quickly becomes smaller and smaller. I'd love to see the expression on a time warped Ancient Era humans face as they flew across a continent on a 747. More so I'd love to be on a ship traveling faster than the speed of light across our galaxy!!

Not to mention the possibilities this would allow for modders. IE: After battling for dominance of the post-apocalyptic caverns you emerge with the desire to rebuild humanity with your vision! Multiple scenarios/ mission based Conquests all on the same Map File! The possibilities are truly endless...

Sounds interesting, but unless I misunderstood your idea, I can see this being a little restrictive if not done well.

for instance, are you saying that only a small part of the continent will be traversable unless later ages?

In that case, I think some might be frustrated to have their land unit not be able to move to the next square on the map until they discover the next age...A warrior should be allowed to go anywhere on the continent regardless of age, as long as he is just going by foot.

That seems to restrict expansion unnecessarily.

Or do you mean restrict travel to the CONTINENT you are on until later ages? Which is kinda the way it is until you discover ships that allow you to traverse seas without sinking.

interesting idea, but seems only good on paper without more details.

[asleepathewheel]

I was wondering that too.

Would be annoying to be on the edge of one map, then make it to the next age and have someone adjacent to you!

One way you could do this is to only allow your units to travel so many tiles from the nearest friendly city. When you gain certain advances or perhaps the new age, the range could be extended or eliminated.

[Styria]

How about some realistic barbarians? Up to now they've been nothing more than antagonists, but in real life, they have had a significant effect almost everywhere. Their presence would also help slow down expansion.

Another thing would be to include tribes (not the way it's used now in the game, as synonymous with the civilization - Athens had 10 tribes), clans, and families with in a nation, at least towards the beginning. This could be spread across several civs and even into the barbarians, for advantages and for viscious sibling rivalries.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
I was thinking of the professional cartographers. Most professional mapping software support Triangular Irregular Networks (TINs) to represent 3D maps. A First Person Shooter modder would consider this as a mesh. Most 3d action and simulation games use some variant of this as opposed to tiles.

RTS games that may have used this technique are Sacrifice, Ground Control, and Populous (whatever the prequel was that had a cool spherical world (and medicore gameplay)).

I've played Populous, and I think you're right there. I'm pretty sure that it didn't have discrete tiles (though the buildings did have a tile base).

[sabrewolf]

if that's the populous (versions 1 and 2) i remember (you play god, level the land, collect mana, send firestorms, etc.) then it was tile based!

the tiles were some diamond form (like civ, just rotated 45°), the castles were built in a certain distance. only the people were more flexible. you could pack a lot of them in one tile (alltough: they never really stood still )

skywalker, what populous are you thinking of?

[Plotinus]

[sabrewolf] They are thinking of the much later sequel to Populous, Populous: The Beginnings, which was set before the original game. You played the shaman of a tribe, hoping to become a god. The game was set on a true 3D world that was actually spherical, and played a bit like Command and Conquer on an asteroid. You rightly point out that the original (and still unsurpassed - well, maybe) Populous and the first sequel took place on an isometric grid similar to Civilization III, but with height as well.

[WarpStorm]

The third Populous (which wasn't really like the other two). It had a cool 3D sherical world you played on. It didn't really play like the other populous games at all (more like a regular RTS).

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/198322.asp

[sabrewolf]

ah thanks

now that i see the box art i remember seeing the game in a store... but i never played it. is it worth it?

[UnityScoutChopper]

Sabrewolf: IMO no. I'm glad I bought it in a bargain bin, especially considering how exciting it sounded when it first came out. (I was lucky I was too poor to buy it at the time -- I L O V E D the original Populous... Atari ST nostalgia!)

[vee4473]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
The third Populous (which wasn't really like the other two). It had a cool 3D sherical world you played on. It didn't really play like the other populous games at all (more like a regular RTS).

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/198322.asp

Populous 3 is a perfect example of what hopefully never happens to civ...either in civ 4 or beyond.

Populous 3 was hardly populous at all, it radically changed the game into something that was a sequel in name only.

May civX never succumb to this fate.