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  • #76
    CMH: That comparison doesn't hold water.

    Many modern companies are totally serviced oriented or deal in "information" and not assets. In a loose definition, I would put Enron and Atari in the same category. Neither own oil wells or assets (with the additional benefit of low overhead as you point out). Additionally, as you suggest in your post, companies with large cap assets is a way for a company to have something to fall back on.

    If people hate every software program released by Atari, Atari's financial performance will sink like a heavy stone just like Enron did. The only thing Atari "owns" would be copyrights, trademarks, etc. to software programs (unless they have diversified into other industries - I don't really know that). Enron had contracts, financial relationships, etc. Both are paper assets. The difference is that Atari, or the companies it bought, have produced software which people like - which the consumer or investor has confidence in.

    Obviously, people lost confidence in Enron, for very good reason. Stock price is a crude indicator of confidence, due to investor evaluation of the company - and it fell from record highs to worthless very quickly. The problem with Enron was illegal activities, false reporting, etc. which distorted the true financial view of the company. This is what distorted an investor's evaluation of the strength of Enron.

    I believe reviewing Theseus' posts would be worthwhile. He works in that industry after all. But even a step further back would worthwhile... the reason for this thread is to discuss the future of the Civilization franchise in light of Atari's financial performance. Strong company + strong demand for Civ games = new, full featured Civ 4. I believe that is the line of this discussion.

    Not trying to be funny, but talking about French and Japan bullet trains, the mafia, the Catholic church, etc. just aren't on topic. I'm with Vince, mrmitchell, et al on this - Ming has been very gracious for whatever reason, but it's really up to us to help keep to the rules and spirit of this site.
    Haven't been here for ages....

    Comment


    • #77
      @ SG
      The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

      Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
        CMH: That comparison doesn't hold water.

        Many modern companies are totally serviced oriented or deal in "information" and not assets. In a loose definition, I would put Enron and Atari in the same category. Neither own oil wells or assets (with the additional benefit of low overhead as you point out). Additionally, as you suggest in your post, companies with large cap assets is a way for a company to have something to fall back on.

        If people hate every software program released by Atari, Atari's financial performance will sink like a heavy stone just like Enron did. The only thing Atari "owns" would be copyrights, trademarks, etc. to software programs (unless they have diversified into other industries - I don't really know that). Enron had contracts, financial relationships, etc. Both are paper assets. The difference is that Atari, or the companies it bought, have produced software which people like - which the consumer or investor has confidence in.

        Obviously, people lost confidence in Enron, for very good reason. Stock price is a crude indicator of confidence, due to investor evaluation of the company - and it fell from record highs to worthless very quickly. The problem with Enron was illegal activities, false reporting, etc. which distorted the true financial view of the company. This is what distorted an investor's evaluation of the strength of Enron.

        I believe reviewing Theseus' posts would be worthwhile. He works in that industry after all. But even a step further back would worthwhile... the reason for this thread is to discuss the future of the Civilization franchise in light of Atari's financial performance. Strong company + strong demand for Civ games = new, full featured Civ 4. I believe that is the line of this discussion.

        Not trying to be funny, but talking about French and Japan bullet trains, the mafia, the Catholic church, etc. just aren't on topic. I'm with Vince, mrmitchell, et al on this - Ming has been very gracious for whatever reason, but it's really up to us to help keep to the rules and spirit of this site.
        Enron asset where finicial contactor which are wallstreet side bet cannot be used to support than Bank loan the Fed
        and other centeral bank rules and most state bank board in America went along with the fed ruleing( State Bank Board are not bond to follow Fed ruleing) . While other contact can be used to get bank loan. Even than world of information need real asset and goods to run. Like foods,metal,oils and engery to run. Enron accounting scandal took alot of person fund manger by surfice than they didnot unload they holding of Enron fast enought. They where to merger with than Germany energy company, it seem like the Germany company hire someone like me who have sersious doutb about Enron balance but
        was unable to put their finger on what they where hideing(
        this isnot unusal in accounting to think that the books are cook and not to know why). So the Germany company back out of the merger with Enron and the mess hit the fan after this. To detect cook books once must know how to cook books. Enron basely increase they earming by cooking their book to have lower expenses so they would have highter earming which fool alot of people who look at one number only back then maining earming and didnot look at the other numbers also. It the other number donot support the cooked number is than good sign that the books are cooked.
        By the year 2100 AD over half of the world population will be follower of Islam.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
          but it's really up to us to help keep to the rules and spirit of this site.
          Well said.
          "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
          "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
          2004 Presidential Candidate
          2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Urban Ranger
            Look at last year's figures. They made less than 1m net on 109m or something sales? That's less than 1%, which means they are doing worse than supermarkets. I don't know if I should or
            If true, thats an extremely poor performance.
            We will have to see what their figures post-christmas are.
            I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).

            Comment


            • #81
              I just have to say this is the most bizarre thread I have ever read.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Argos65987
                I just have to say this is the most bizarre thread I have ever read.
                Check out the OT forum.
                "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
                "Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
                2004 Presidential Candidate
                2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)

                Comment


                • #83
                  I think this is the OT forum surging into Topic FOrums.

                  yes the OT is bizarre...
                  Haven't been here for ages....

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Urban Ranger


                    Bingo.

                    Look at last year's figures. They made less than 1m net on 109m or something sales? That's less than 1%, which means they are doing worse than supermarkets. I don't know if I should or
                    Man that is some SERIOUS overhead. On the otherhand, buying Atari likely cost a pretty penny as did the outrght purchase of Avlon Hill/ Hasboro. Moving the Headquarters out of France and covering losses in the employee pension fund (due to Enron, GC, MC World Com, ect) must be considered as well. In some ways it seems a minor miracle that Atari's losses were not even larger.
                    * A true libertarian is an anarchist in denial.
                    * If brute force isn't working you are not using enough.
                    * The difference between Genius and stupidity is that Genius has a limit.
                    * There are Lies, Damned Lies, and The Republican Party.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Where did they move they headquater.
                      By the year 2100 AD over half of the world population will be follower of Islam.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Here in NYC.

                        Actually, though, that's not really 100% true... Atari is HQed in NYC, and Infogrames is still the French entity, and owns appr. 2/3 of Atari.

                        This was done as appr. 60% of total sales are in the US.
                        The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

                        Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          oh...we are back to on topic again....good (i'm never sure when that email comes through and the subject line says "Reply to post 'Atari Reports Losses' )

                          That profit margin is incredible thin!!! When's the next earnings announcement due from Atari?

                          That stock price is pretty low... $3.65/share
                          Haven't been here for ages....

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
                            oh...we are back to on topic again....good (i'm never sure when that email comes through and the subject line says "Reply to post 'Atari Reports Losses' )

                            That profit margin is incredible thin!!! When's the next earnings announcement due from Atari?

                            That stock price is pretty low... $3.65/share
                            Profit margin isnot also that inportant. The state of the world
                            ecomony can effect profit margin of all bussiens. Wallmark is reporting last week that Christmas sale they ecpect is at the very low end of what they want. It the global ecomony pick up the profit margin will pick up again. There is no instant recovery from than major despration we went thought, it alot
                            like the 1929's thought 1930 despression. You must know alittle bit of history to put thing in the propter frame. In the last Great Despression almost all big corppration that survice report negrate profit margin for afew quater before thing got better.
                            By the year 2100 AD over half of the world population will be follower of Islam.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Thanks. One of my degrees is in Economics.

                              ...and profiy margin is one of the more important financial metrics. For proper perspective, it needs to be compared to the sector's performance, the trending over several quarters, overall sales figures, debt load + debt rating, and considered in light of the corporations strategic direction.
                              Haven't been here for ages....

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by CharlesBHoff
                                Profit margin isnot also that inportant. The state of the world
                                ecomony can effect profit margin of all bussiens. Wallmark is reporting last week that Christmas sale they ecpect is at the very low end of what they want. It the global ecomony pick up the profit margin will pick up again. There is no instant recovery from than major despration we went thought, it alot
                                like the 1929's thought 1930 despression. You must know alittle bit of history to put thing in the propter frame. In the last Great Despression almost all big corppration that survice report negrate profit margin for afew quater before thing got better.
                                I prefer EVA, myself... but, once again, I have no idea what you are going on about.
                                The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

                                Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

                                Comment

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