If you could add one new improvement to Civ3...

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Fosse
Another wish for me... Political borders that can be moved in diplomacy. Especially for MP.

Yes, I've thought that would be a cool game function also.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I totally agree with you Fosse and GF! I certainly hope that this kind of thing will be a major component of the NEXT XP !!!
I really like the concept of Cultural borders, but felt that border adjustments and even land trades should be part of the diplomacy system!
It shouldn't be that hard to do, under the 'Trading Table', you'd have a minimap of all the territory you are currently aware of. You click on it and form a square/ rectangle over all of the tiles you want to trade, surrender, etc!! The rest of it would work exactly like any normal trade! For an example-let's say that you notice some lovely coal in some land that you haven't quite claimed yet! You have a colony exploiting the resource, but your neighbours borders are expanding rapidly! You go to the negotiating table, and click on the minimap to form a rectangle over that piece of land (the minimap would indicate major terrain features, and also have representations of all cities and terrain improvements). You then say what you will offer in return for the land you want to claim. The land doesn't even have to be near your borders (can you say 'Louisiana Purchase'?) In addition, this system could be used as a means to give up land-usually in return for peace-or possibly even to create a DMZ situation (where NO ONE gets the land!) As a final point, it might also be great, under this system, if you could sacrifice explorers to 'Lay Claim' to unclaimed foreign territory! It would create a 'Culture Zone' of about between 2x2 and 4x4 tiles!
Anyway, just some thoughts!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[SSBLoveU]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
I totally agree with you Fosse and GF! I certainly hope that this kind of thing will be a major component of the NEXT XP !!!
I really like the concept of Cultural borders, but felt that border adjustments and even land trades should be part of the diplomacy system! . . .
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

I was thinking that this could be allowed under some political systems while others could have Royal Families. Marriages could influence family wealth. And with some political systems there could be different political parties. Civil Wars could allow people to fight themselves (a way for someone to enter midway in a game). Also, the formation of resistance groups could make espionage an interesting sub-game, and every good spy could gain control over cities or at least become part of the population. The spy could be a scout (spearman ---> tank). (Who really uses the explorer?) (I like them but never have time for them.) The explorer could have the option of becoming a scientist, engineering, diplomat or spy. The scout could also carry written information from civilization to civilization until the radio is developed. The explorer would be important because he could ride horses, and he could get massages to allies quicker. The radio would make the messenger obsolete. So now, a well-known upgraded scout could enter into a favorite city, and he could organize his friends in the city to do something. Maybe, work on Einstein's formula or develop a better peace treaty or steal the plans for the Panther Tank. The messenger would then have to make it back to his home city or use his radio. The radio message could be bugged or he could be questioned by security. The scout now would become an important player to keep throughout the game because he could make friends or enemies. He would be an important player like the tank in the end game. And the older the scout was, the more important he would become in the end game.

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
It shouldn't be that hard to do, under the 'Trading Table', you'd have a minimap of all the territory you are currently aware of. You click on it and form a square/ rectangle over all of the tiles you want to trade, surrender, etc!! The rest of it would work exactly like any normal trade! For an example-let's say that you notice some lovely coal in some land that you haven't quite claimed yet! You have a colony exploiting the resource, but your neighbours borders are expanding rapidly! You go to the negotiating table, and click on the minimap to form a rectangle over that piece of land (the minimap would indicate major terrain features, and also have representations of all cities and terrain improvements). You then say what you will offer in return for the land you want to claim. The land doesn't even have to be near your borders (can you say 'Louisiana Purchase'?) In addition, this system could be used as a means to give up land-usually in return for peace-or possibly even to create a DMZ situation (where NO ONE gets the land!) As a final point, it might also be great, under this system, if you could sacrifice explorers to 'Lay Claim' to unclaimed foreign territory! It would create a 'Culture Zone' of about between 2x2 and 4x4 tiles!
Anyway, just some thoughts!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

I see some problems with that, since it conflicts with the culture-based approach to borders as it is now.
For example- who will you pay for 'unclaimed' land? It belongs to nobody after all. You could try to arrange it so that everyone gets a share but this would be equally unrealistic for small/hostile/far-away civs.
Also, what if you trade to expand your border a bit and then one of the two competing civs's cities increases it's radius? Does the border ever again move or is it fixed forever?

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Grim Legacy I see this idea, not as a replacement to Cultural Borders, but as an adjunct to it! The person you'd pay for unclaimed land would be the Civ whose cultural borders lie CLOSEST to the land you want! All that such a deal would do would be to prevent that Civs cultural borders from growing out to encompass that land for the length of time of the treaty! After that, if you've not taken steps to lay claim to it through culture, then 'All Bets are Off'-as they say ! Also, it would by NO MEANS stop a third Civs borders from swallowing up that territory-unless you made a similar deal with them! As you can see then, culture is still a VITAL component to the border system-my idea simply adds a few new kinks to the system, but ones which still remain subservient to the original intent of the games designers !! After all, using money to buy land from several civs is going to be VERY expensive, unless you back it up with cultural strength! In addition, if you are strong militarily, then it gives you another new way of exercising that POWER !! Again, though, culture takes precedent over this system!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Elias]

I would like to see this Implimented into the game but what if your on An Island by yourself or dont know about any other civs yet and just want to claim that one little space so the AI dosent plant a city smack dab on your territory. I would like to see borders stay permenant after all how often does mexico get control of the Rio Grande Colonies should also count as one square of your territory I hate it when the AI plants citys next to your Collonies. I also herd somthing about the economy a while back I think this would add much realisim to the game Example China earns 240Bil a year and mylasya a much small country with much fewer people makes 280Bil a year canada is larger then the U.S but earns less money and all the European nations would be broke.

[Guynemer]

Attrition, like in RON.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Could you be a little more specific about 'Attrition' Guynemer?

Aussie_Lurker.

[Elias]

When your go into enemy territoy without supply trucks you recive damage to your units. This would add realisim to the game Germany had a huge supply train which cost them dearly.

[Elias]

In a way this is already in the game when your unit goes down to 1hp you need to retreat to your territory to get it healed(unless you have batfiled medicne) It is also harder to replace lost units at further distances. I always hated this in rise of nations too much to worry about.

[Guynemer]

It could work that all units in enemy territory lose 1 HP for every 3 or 4 turns in enemy territory... could be adjusted up or down by certain techs or wonders... could be avoided outright by having a certain specialized unit in the same square (supply wagon)...

[Outsider]

Maybe you just fight differently than I do, but I rarely have a significant number of units in hostile territory for more than a few turns before the parcel of land they're on becomes friendly. Do you march your armies into your enemies country and sit em there without taking cities?

[Guynemer]

No, but the AI does on occasion.

[Outsider]

One other thing...

Is your handle "Guynemer" because you really like the game "Blue Max", because you have an interest in WWI fighter pilots through some other route, or is it something else entirely?

[Elias]

I dont like the attrition Idea to complicated. I think the current systym has somthing that could be subustitued for it. But if it was added in you would have to be in frendinly terrirory connected to the trade routs if the current supply was not in supply in the square you were in you could not heal your units and they would recive attrition damage (yes even in your territory) You would also need some kind of supply train you could supply with oil or rubber etc.. the supply train should be returned to freindly territor and be refiled with supplies every 3-4 turns each supply wagon could support so many units per turn per resoucre type.