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  • CIV4 discussion points

    critique my ideas, and add your own ideas.
    some of mine might seem complicated at first, though i think it would boil down simply if it were to be implemented.

    1. RESOURCES, INDUSTRY, AND TRADING SYSTEM

    a. Have within any the city radius residences, industries, and commerce appear on the map like they do in Railroad Tycoon, so that factories, farms, housing, and city improvements are shown directly on the world map.
    b. Have industries form on their own related to the geography, so that in grasslands farms form, in wooden areas, lumbering industries form over time. What industries grow not only depends on the geography but on the number of trade units per that city, so trade units work like the commercial alternative to shields. ie, light industry requires 10 commerce, heavy industry 20, etc.
    c. The development of certain commodities require other commodities, like in Colonization. But to make this simple, the amount of a certain commodity produced is shown on the map next to the building, so say a silk factory has three silks shown next to it. When roads between cities are connected so that all the required resources are gained for the production of another commodity, then that industry starts cropping up. This all happens by itself, without input from the player.
    d. What the player can do is build the infrastructure of roads, and also build city improvements that increase the amount of commerce generated, like marketplaces and banks.
    e. Have the ability for enemy units to fortify on roads and block the flow of commerce and commodities (much like a naval blockade), have the ability to fortify on industries to shut them down entirely (or pillage them depending on the players wishes). Fortifying on roads should allow a chance of piracy per turn where the resources and commerce are deverted to the enemy civilization.

    2. POOL OF FOOD, RESOURCES, AND SHIELDS

    a. All cities connected with roads should have access to half the food, resources, and shields that are extra and available from all surrounding cities. This creates a tier system: say one city is surrounded by two, and has twelve extra food, each of those gets six extra food, and the original city six extra. Then say, each of those cities is surrounded by two, so each of those gets three extra food, ad the two original cities only three extra themselves. If I'm right, this works out in a way where distance factors in.
    b. All cities connected with railroads should have access to all the food, resources, and shields. No tier system in place, this divides everything evenly between railroad connected cities.
    c. Extra of course, means shields, food, and resources, not in use by the other cities, so any city can usurp priority of them if needed. So this doesnt mean that the original city that is producing is stuck with the low number equal division through railroad, any of the cities can usurp the extra shields if needed.

    3. TRAITS CONNECTED TO PLAYER ACTIONS THROUGH SELECTIVE ADVANCE

    a. Technology could be dependent on a queue of certain game factors. So, for instance, Mysticism gained when enough incense is gathered, Feudalism gained when a certain number of horsemen units are created, or city walls, etc.
    b. This would tie the development of the culture of each civilization both to geographic starting locations (hey, its Marx's theory of production), and to player actions during the course of the game. So a civilization which focused on building/gathering that lead to military techs would develop militarily, etc.
    c. Or, Alternatively, the civilization would gain its traits (expansionist, militaristic, etc) through in game actions like this. So if you meet a certain amount of production, you get a bonus; if you win a lot of battles, you get a battle bonus, etc. What traits a civilization has at the moment would be available on the diplomacy screen.

    4. REVOLTS, CORRUPTION, AND CULTURAL COHESION

    a. The corruption should depend on cultural influence by that city and surrounding cities, not specific improvements like Forbidden Palaces. So if a small city is under the cultural influence of a culturally powerful city like the capitol, it would have low corruption. The further cities would be away from the capital, the more corruption they would have, unless under the cultural influence of another high culture city. Under this design, the player can beeline culture and maintain order throughout the whole of his nation.
    b. Have city revolts lead to the possibility of them joining a new, independent civilization, formed from the civilizations left out of the existing game; instead of only the option of joining an existing civilization. This will make the game more realistic.
    c. When a cultural flip is about to occur , and there are garrisoned units, there is either a Massacre (death of population), or Revolt (damaging of garissoned units) rather than a straight away flip

  • #2
    We have had so many of these threads.

    I think most of your ideas are to extreme. I really don't like 1.a

    Section 3 has some interesting stuff in it.
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    • #3
      1. Unnecessary complexity. Makes the game more advanced yet brings in little gameplay, making the AI worse and bringing in extra code.

      2. Add tech requirements and partial losses to it and it might work.

      3. Could be interesting.

      4a. Removes a part of the game.
      b. Might be interesting.
      c. I think something needs to be done about flips, anyway. I don't mind that a city flips, but when your entire army just disappears in thin air it's really annoying.

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      • #4
        4c: yeah losing the armies is a pain, and seems wildly unrealistic...
        Gurka 17, People of the Valley
        I am of the Horde.

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        • #5
          4c.
          Agreed. There needs to be a ratio of garrisoned units to city population where culture flips can no longer happen. Or at the very least, during a flip a certain number of units go back to the capitol. It ridiculous to lose huge stacks in the blink of an eye without so much as warning or a fight.
          "Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"

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          • #6
            I don't mind the losses, but at least there should have been a battle and many citizens should have died.
            So if it does flip and it si size 14 and you have 8 units, then they should have taken out some people.

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            • #7
              I disagree with Sheik. I like the idea of 1.a. I think that would make it so much more better then a crumby 1 square image, you could have a huge sprawling city which would be awesome.
              Revolution Gaming - Revolution Technology

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              • #8
                Originally posted by vmxa1
                I don't mind the losses, but at least there should have been a battle and many citizens should have died.
                So if it does flip and it si size 14 and you have 8 units, then they should have taken out some people.

                I like this idea. Instead of an automatic culture flip, there would be a rebellion - using some kind of formula, the revolt would either be put down by the garrisoned units at the cost of city/population size, etc. or the city would flip.

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                • #9
                  There's only one thing we need: better AI. Keep CIV IV just like CIV III but increase the complexity and uncertainty of interactions with other leaders. Maybe not possible? I don't know, it just seem so lame (mind you I haven't played the expansions at all, I'm just tuning back in after about 9 months since giving up CIV III at about 1.18. )

                  There's so much out there on game theory (i.e. economic/political game theory), how leaders game situations, that must be possible to code into a game...

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                  • #10
                    Unique civs would be a lot of work, but very rewarding. At the moment the only thing telling the Civs apart is colour and how the city looks.

                    Unique units across the board for every civ, probably not in their relative strengths, it'd be too confusing, but certainly graphically.

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                    • #11
                      One idea I haven't fleshed out very far, but am intrigued by, is being able to draw provincial borders within your empire, and set up a provincial capital in each to help with corruption. Optimally, there would be some tradeoff to make the option between a lot of small provinces and a few large provinces a strategic choice rather than self-evident. Maybe a set cost per provicial seat deducted from the treasury or something. I'm not advocating making a bunch of Forbidden Palace analogs available, either. Designating a provincial seat would either require building a much cheaper improvement that acted as a weak Palace, or nothing at all.

                      Plus, I think it'd be cool to look at a map of the empire and see province/state names like "Greek Enclave", "Arabian Territory", "Land So Many Egyptians Died So Futilely For", "Xerxes is My B*tch", etc.
                      Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

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                      • #12
                        Unique units across the board for every civ, probably not in their relative strengths, it'd be too confusing, but certainly graphically.
                        Oh, the flurry of right-clicking in the first several games every time one encounters an enemy unit.
                        Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

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                        • #13
                          Just like in real life...

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                          • #14
                            The design team should be locked in a room with copies of CTP2 just so they can see how much better the interface can be.
                            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                            • #15
                              Too many of these suggestions would make the game too complex. I see this problem time and again with such suggestions. Some things i would like to see:


                              Resources:

                              No more "I lost my horses". Once you find horses, you shouldn't lose them because you lost a city. Funny how I lose my horses, yet I can still ride the ones I have into battle :P.

                              Remove rubber as a requirement after WWII era tech, as sythetic rubber was developed around this time.

                              Cities:

                              eliminate shield waste that occurs when an imrovement/unit is built. Also allow 2+ units to be built in a city/turn if there is enough production. Allow cities to actually "work" squares outside their radius via a form of colony. Should only be allowed for size 25+ cities with an airport. Would give an incentive for larger cities.
                              Citizen of the Apolyton team in the ISDG
                              Currently known as Senor Rubris in the PTW DG team

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