Censorship, eh?

[Qyl]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN LEARNING TO PLAY THE GAME? I KNOW HOW, I UNDERSTAND THE BASIC IDEAS. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING CIV FOR YEARS! I HAVE BEEN WINNING AT CIV FOR YEARS! BUT I AM NOT THE TOTAL CIV JUNKIE. MAYBE THIS GAME WAS MEANT FOR THOSE WHO ARE. WHY DOES THE COMPUTER GANG UP ON ME, AND IS THERE ANY WAY TO STOP IT? WHY DO I CONSISTANTY LOSE BATTLES THAT I SHOULD WIN, IS THE GAME THAT TILTED TOWARDS THE COMPUTER? HOW DO YOU STAY ALIVE WHEN YOU ARE FACED WITH AN ONSLAUGHT OF A MULTI COUNTRY ALIANCE AGAINST YOU? WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN NOONE WILL TRADE WITH YOU? WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU ARE STARTED OUT SOMEWHERE THAT DOESN'T HAVE IRON, AND YOU CAN'T FIND ANY (YES I HAVE THE ADVANCE NECESSARY TO MAKE IT APPEAR)? WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU HAVE NO TRADABLE RESOURCES? WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE COMPUTER BUILDS CITIES THAT BLOCK YOUR ROADS? WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT BUILDING A FORBIDDEN PALACE A REASONABLE DISTACE FROM YOUR CITY, WHEN YOU CAND GET ANY PRODUCTION OUT OF THE CITY BECAUSE IT IS A REASONABLE DISTANCE FROM YOUR CAPITAL (TOO CLOSE AND THE FORBIDDEN PALACE IS USELESS)? SOMEONE, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO WIN AT EVEN A MIDDLE LEVEL! THE OTHER CIV GAMES I WAS ABLE TO FIGURE OUT AFTER A FEW TRIES, THIS ONE HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT FRUSTRATING! I THINK THEY WENT OVERBOARD ON IT! SURE, THE TOTAL CIV JUNKIES DIG IT, BUT PEOPLE LIKE ME, WHO PLAYED AND LIKED CIV2 THINK THIS SUCKS! MY FRIENDS AGREE, AND ARE TOTALLY NOT MOTIVATED TO MESS WITH THIS GAME. WHAT IS IT WE ARE MISSING HERE? DO YOU HAVE AN ARTICLE WE CAN READ TO HELP US WIN AT THE JOWER LEVELS? ALL I KNOW IS THAT ANY GAME THAT YOU CAN'T JUST PICK UP AN DMESS WITH, AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO WIN WITHOUT EITHER SPENDING ENORMOUS HOURS, OR WITHOUT READING SOME ACTICLE, HAS LITTLE CHANCE OF APPEALING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE!

[The Mad Monk]

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble reading that. Please don't use all caps.

[Qyl]

What do you mean learning to play the game? I know how, i understand the basic ideas. I have been playing civ for years! I have been winning at civ for years! But i am not the total civ junkie. Maybe this game was meant for those who are. Why does the computer gang up on me, and is there any way to stop it? Why do i consistanty lose battles that i should win, is the game that tilted towards the computer? How do you stay alive when you are faced with an onslaught of a multi country aliance against you? What do you do when noone will trade with you? What do you do when you are started out somewhere that doesn't have iron, and you can't find any (yes i have the advance necessary to make it appear)? What do you do when you have no tradable resources? What do you do when the computer builds cities that block your roads? What do you do about building a forbidden palace a reasonable distace from your city, when you cand get any production out of the city because it is a reasonable distance from your capital (too close and the forbidden palace is useless)? Someone, please tell me what i have to do to win at even a middle level! The other civ games i was able to figure out after a few tries, this one has been nothing but frustrating! I think they went overboard on it! Sure, the total civ junkies dig it, but people like me, who played and liked civ2 think this sucks! My friends agree, and are totally not motivated to mess with this game. What is it we are missing here? Do you have an article we can read to help us win at the jower levels? All i know is that any game that you can't just pick up an dmess with, and figure out how to win without either spending enormous hours, or without reading some acticle, has little chance of appealing to a lot of people!

[MarkG]

yeah yeah censorship.....

try to think how you need to express your issues in order to get the best answer and then try again

it will be your last chance before geting a free weekend off the site to ponder again on how to properly communicate with other people

[The Mad Monk]

Hi Markos! How's the Army?

[The Mad Monk]

There isn't any kind of "tilt toward the computer" in combat, IIRC, but the RNG has always seemed to run to extremes (at least to me), so you'd thse incredible runs of good and bad luck.

The best way to keep the AIs from ganging up on you is to form alliances and sic 'em on each other.

[MarkG]

my current answer is : you get used to it

[Tiberius]

There is no easy or short answer for your problems, Qyl.
You could start by reading some excellent strategy threads, collected under this link:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59216

Then you could post specific saves/screenshots in the strategy forum and the civ experts who lurk there will help. Just post the save or the shot, say what the problem is, and ask nicely for help. Most of the Apolyton veterans can win the game on Deity or at least on Emperor, without cheating, so you can do it too with the proper knowledge and strategy.

Oh, and welcome back Markos

[Qyl]

Let me do it point by point:
1- Why does the computer gang up on me, and is there any way to stop it (why do so many civs form alliance against me)?

2-Why do I consistanty lose battles that I should win, is the game that tilted towards the computer(is the computer given an advantage in battle, even at the lower levels, and if so what do I need to consider so I can have a chance of winning important battles)?

3-How do you stay alive when you are faced with an onslaught of a multi country aliance against you?

4-What do you do when no one will trade with you (several countries embargo you/set up an anti trade alliance)?

5-What do you do when you are started out on a continent that doesn't have iron, and you can't find any (yes I have the advance necessary to make it appear)?

What do you do when you have no tradable resources?

What do you do when the computer builds cities that block your roads? If you attack the civ, then things get bogged down in war and it can be tough to get anything else done.

What do you do about building a forbidden palace a reasonable distace from your city, when you can't get any production out of the city because it is a reasonable distance from your capital (too close and the forbidden palace is useless)?

Someone, please tell me what i have to do to win at even a lower level!

Do you have an article we can read to help us win at the jower levels?

[The Mad Monk]

What do you do when noone will trade with you?

Have you broken treaties? Don't do that, for starters. The AIs remember, and they tell each other about you. Also, as you go into higher levels, the AI's value their goods more highly relative to yours; this dosen't make trade impossible, but it does mean that you have to offer more.

What do you do when you are started out somewhere that doesn't have iron, and you can't find any (yes i have the advance necessary to make it appear)?

Trade for it (see above), and act real nice until you get it.

What do you do when you have no tradable resources?

You always have tradable resources -- gold, research, and maps, among others. Actual "resources" certainly make trading easier, but they aren't "required".

What do you do when the computer builds cities that block your roads?

Build culture. Lots and lots of culture.

What do you do about building a forbidden palace a reasonable distace from your city, when you cand get any production out of the city because it is a reasonable distance from your capital (too close and the forbidden palace is useless)?

Reduce the corruption level, natch!

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by MarkG
my current answer is : you get used to it

[Tiberius]

I provided you a link above. Please note that some threads collected there are old and some things have changed in the meantime (for example, the AI is tougher in PtW; actually it is "smarter" or more efficient).

[Solomwi]

This is all I meant. You've asked some of the same questions I had at first, and yes, the best thing to do is browse the strategy forum, even if just for a few minutes. A few quick answers that may help get you pointed in the right direction:

The AI Gang-up: Beat them to the punch. From the moment you make contact, consider your plans and uses for the rival civ, and their mood toward you. Trade whenever you can, right from the start. If you get into a war, get allies before your enemy does. All else being equal, the other AI civs will team up with you just as quickly as with the other guy. As MM says, always bear in mind how a move affects your reputation.

Tradable Resources: One word... REX (Rapid Early Expansion, okay one acronym, three words). Forget how you did it in Civ II and gobble up land left and right. Obviously, there's some thought that should go into city placement, but the basic rule is the more land you control, the more resources you're likely to control. This somewhat ties into the AI covering up your road, too. Either build cities out your road network quickly, or build cities nearby and build plenty of culture in them if the AI does get a chance to plop down a city. I had this happen in a current game, the Carthaginians covered up the only road I had to get my troops to the Mongol front. Until I could build out, I made a Right of Passage agreement with them. A couple of well placed cities with temples and a corridor literally opened up between his two cities, giving me my road back.

Embargoes: Can't say that I've ever been embargoed, at least not meaningfully, but my first piece of advice would be to be proactive, and either make sure as many civs as possible are dependent on your for a lux or resource (they are loathe to embargo someone with whom they have a deal going, especially if they are receiving the resource), or get those embargoes before your enemy does. My second, and my likely reaction to such a move, would be to go kick somebody's ass. If Greece has signed three civs into embargoes against you, and you make it so there's no more Greece, presto, no more embargoes.

Lack of a Resource: If possible, go to war to get a resource you're shut out of. Another option is to trade for it, though that doesn't really help if you're in the ancient age with no iron on the entire continent. When all else fails, try to hang on until the Iron Age ends and hope for Saltpeter. There are ways to cope, such as shifting into a builder mode, building LOTS of horsemen, archers, longbowmen and spearmen and using them wisely, or just keeping in mind that if there's no iron on your continent, the guys you're about to go to war with don't have it either.

Forbidden Palace: My favorite method is an early war. Fight long enough that you get a Great Leader, and use the leader to rush your FP. I tend to do it in the capital of the civ I just crushed. I've never failed to get a leader and use it this way when I go to war with this as one of the goals. A lot of people will put it very close to their capital, then later, when the empire's taken shape a bit more, move their palace to the new core. I'm sure others could give you even more ways to effectively get it up and running.

What I've said here is, like I said, just one small small step in the right direction, I hope. The posters here are as knowledgeable as you'll find, and don't mind helping. Heck, when I first started reading these forums, I was afraid to go to war on Warlord level until I had modern armor. Now I start each game salivating over possibly pulling off the vaunted "Arrian Deception", which has so far eluded my grasp.

The best piece of advice I've picked up here, though, is this: "Forget everything you learned in Civ II."

[CerberusIV]

Qyl. The game can be beaten but it is deliberately rather different to Civ2 and many Civ2 tactics don't work. That means unlearning them, for example don't irrigate grasslands until you can change government from Despotism. Combat is different and terrain and other factors have major effects on the outcome of battles.

Tiberius has given the best advice, play a game until you feel you are having difficulty then post a save in the strategy forum. A number of people are likely to try and help but be prepared to get constructive criticism.

[Tiberius]

There is one more thing you can do: join the Democracy Game and watch how others are doing it. You will learn a lot.

The Demo Game is a human vs. computer game, where the human player is a a team of Apolyton members, all of them having a word in what should be done to win the game. Check the appropriate forum.

Also in the Strategy forum you will find the Apolyton University, a series of games meant to compare playing styles and strategies and to teach new players ... err, better ask Theseus what AU is (just kidding, read for yourself in the AU thread).