Trade Routes

[CerberusIV]

Thinking back, my somewhat hazy recollection is that an AI civ on an island showed up as having an active trade with another AI civ (blue line connecting them in F4 screen) whilst the F2 screen said I did not have a sea route to trade with them and the map showed no harbours in any of their cities. The really annoying thing was that I could trade with the second AI civ by land.

I wonder if the game checks for harbours in trades involving the human players but misses this in AI to AI trades? It would explain the screenshots posted above.

[badams52]

Cereberus, maybe you didn't have the required tech for the sea or ocean terrain available for trading whereas the AI did.

[vmxa1]

I do see roads (I think) going through open spaces. That is not in any cultiral borders. This is surely what is being used. This are treated as if they are yours for movement and such.

[Solomwi]

Actually, you don't need peace to show the absence of a harbor, that little anchor thing in the main map is always visible and denotes a city with a harbor.

That's what I thought, but wanted to nail it 100%, in case you need an active embassy to "see" new harbors (i.e., if he built one during the war, which I couldn't see because it had never been there while I had an embassy).

I do see roads (I think) going through open spaces.

I don't think so. The road going southeast from Pergamon does go into my borders immediately, and the only open country roads (the one with my MI on it and the one between Ereen and Baruun-Urt) go into my borders as well. I'm ready to chalk it up to a bug. Btw, once I got RP, the captured workers caught up, and are back to half speed rather than third speed.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by badams52
Cereberus, maybe you didn't have the required tech for the sea or ocean terrain available for trading whereas the AI did.

I had the Great Lighthouse so that definitely wasn't the problem. If my recollection is correct no-one should have been able to trade with that AI as it had no harbours.

[vmxa1]

Astronomy is required to do trade over sea tiles. Of course you need a harbor as well on both ends,

[plattfuss]

I encountered a similar problem some days ago. My only source of iron was on another continent. I had a city one tile away which was connected by road to a civ (and its capital) on that continent. Though I was able to trade with that civ my iron was shown to be not connected. Any ideas on that one?

[cnich29]

I think they can maintain trade through your land. Detatch your highway from theirs, it's the only way to know for sure wether it's a feature or a bug. Good luck.

[Catt]

Apologies in advance for the length and the uncertainty of the answer . . .

I believe that the game operates in such a way that allows a neutral country to trade goods through your territory with an enemy of yours. Your enemy cannot trade goods through your lands, but others can trade goods through your lands with your enemy. I suspect that Carthage is importing either a luxury or a strategic resource in exchange for a tech, a lump sum payment, or gpt. In other words, Egyptian resources are passing through your trade network to Carthage. If Hannibal had paid for the resource deal with a resource of his own, the deal would have been broken through your control of outgoing trade routes. However, if Carthage had made other arrangements for the trade (other than resources going to Egypt), it would take an act of war from you against Egypt to interdict Egyptian goods traveling to Carthage or a trade embargo with Egypt against Carthage (which would probably cost you a pretty penny). The only other alternative is for you to sever all roads, even those passing through your territory, that go to the Carthaginian capitol. So, you can isolate the enemy capitol, or you can secure trade embargoes -- until you do, resources will continue to flow to your enemy so long as the trade deal struck doesn't involve your enemy's goods moving to its trading partner.

In sum, I believe it is possible for goods from a neutral country to pass through your trade network to your enemy's capitol though it is not possible for enemy goods to make the reverse trip.

Catt

[Solomwi]

Show of hands, now, who else somehow expected Catt to come up with an explanation just like this that makes perfect sense?

Now that you mention that, I did know beforehand that Carthage was importing luxuries, if not resources, with these trades, but had always thought of trade routes as all or nothing, so that would explain it.

Now for my mini-rant: If a neutral country is shipping a strategic resource to my enemy through my territory with no problems, my people need to get off their asses and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Does this strike anybody else as flawed?

Thanks, Catt.

I figured out the Iron Works one, too, as a coal source regenerated right next to one of my supplementary Iron cities the turn after I took Carthage's coal city. Naturally, it's in the tundra, surrounded by mountains, with access to a couple of hills and one grassland. IOW, permanently stuck at size four.

I've yet to figure out the captured workers working at 1/3 speed between Democracy (gov't, not tech) and RP, though, unless it's something off the wall like one other AI civ having to be in Demo, too.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Now for my mini-rant: If a neutral country is shipping a strategic resource to my enemy through my territory with no problems, my people need to get off their asses and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Does this strike anybody else as flawed?

Yeah, it's kinda screwy. On the other hand, I can see how it might have been intended to impact gameplay and how it can be justified "rationally" -- the gameplay impact might be an attempt to strengthen the role of trade embargoes, and the "rational" justification is that interdicting foreign goods, even if destined to an enemy, would be an act of war.

That said, I'd favor a simpler trade route system that operates more intuitively -- i.e., you isolate your enemy and no goods get through.

I've yet to figure out the captured workers working at 1/3 speed between Democracy (gov't, not tech) and RP, though, unless it's something off the wall like one other AI civ having to be in Demo, too.

This happens in every game, actually. I believe that this occurs because only your native workers enjoy the benefits of democracy -- your slaves remain slaves and don't feel particularly excited (or more productive) about the institution of democracy since they get no vote. On the other hand, the 1:2 ratio for worker jobs returns with RP. The 1:3 ratio only seems to occur while in demo but before RP -- the "slaves don't benefit from democracy" explanation doesn't continue to fly once RP is researched. Bug or feature, you decide

Catt

[Solomwi]

This happens in every game, actually.

In that case, the good news is that I now no longer have that nagging seed of "how in the world could the extra memory I added be screwing the game up? That can't be it, can it?"

The bad news is I'm an idiot for never noticing this before.

Now I just need to go back and get the right screenshots to show the 6-move AI Galley.

[Sheik]

In my current game I recently conquered an Arab city and gained two sources of spices, I then immediatly started trading one source with the Chinese. Within a few turns the Arabs retook the city but it appeared that I was still exporting spices to the Chinese and it did not appear like I took a rep hit.

[Solomwi]

Did you already have a source of spices before conquering the city? I've noticed if I have two of a resource, am trading one and lose one (usually by random exhaustion) that it will use my sole remaining source in the trade, which I don't really disagree with at all.

[vmxa1]

Look in the trade advisor to see how many you own.
I never heard of luxs exhausting? Can that happen?