New traits! What will Seafaring and Agricultural do?

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Thoth
The +1 food for towns won't have an effect until after Monarchy/Repuplic. The Despotic tile penalty still applies to the city square, so the bonus for towns would be lost.

I'm sure the game designers could "hard-code" this effect in order to get around the despotic tile penalty.


Dominae

[Thoth]

Good point Dominae , but as you pointed out 3 food from each town's home square would likely be horribly unbalancing in the early game.

[Solomwi]

and an even better case to be made for religious...

Not to kick over an ant hill, because I know what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree, as far as a) the tendency for a large part of today's America to scream as loudly as possible that "we are a Christian nation!" and b) the part religion played in the motivation of the earliest settlers, but I think it would be a disservice to make America a religious civ. Not because of gameplay, but because America's current incarnation, as an independent and organized nation, is specifically and intentionally not based on religious belief, but rather on the rule of law.

When I think of a religious civ, I think it applies more to an Egypt, where the entire civ followed the same religion, and there were public works built for religious purposes, or the hypothetical (game-wise) Hebrew civ, whose defining characteristic is its religion. In the case of the Celts, it's not uncommon (at least here) for a child to know about the civilization's priests, the Druids, before knowing about the civilization itself. India and Arabia, birthplaces of two major religions, also fit the bill well. In short, America neither subscribes to a state religion, was brought together as a culture/civilization by a common religion nor gave birth to a major religion. Because of that, I think an equally strong case can be made against religious as a trait.

To the other options, I definitely think expansionist and industrial fit well, and commercial would be just as appropriate as either of the other two. I don't think militaristic would fit as well, since for most of our history, isolationism ran strong. Early on, we even tended to disband both army and navy when no threat was immediate. America simply hasn't ever seen a strong military as an end unto itself. A better case could be made for scientific, but as one of my professors said, "J.W. Gibbs is the only American to ever make any kind of contribution to the field of thermodynamics." The scientific case would have to be made more on an engineering basis, taking the breakthroughs of others and doing more with them, rather than breakthrough contributions, at least in the classical fields.

Sorry, didn't mean to threadjack.

[Kuciwalker]

China can't be agricultural. It has to be Militaristic and Industrious, otherwise the Great Wall wouldn't trigger a GA. I remember before the release they specifically changed China to Militaristic and Industrious because of that.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by skywalker
China can't be agricultural. It has to be Militaristic and Industrious, otherwise the Great Wall wouldn't trigger a GA. I remember before the release they specifically changed China to Militaristic and Industrious because of that.

Well, better to change that one wonder. Lordy.

[Kuciwalker]

How could the Great Wall be anything other than what it is?

[GePap]

I think that was a poor decision: IIRC, Rome should have been industrious, Militaristic, China, industrious, Scientific, Persia Militaristic ,Commercial.

As for these traits:

The ability ot feed large pops. was curical for many civs: one of the reasons Rome beat Carthage was that Rome had a huge reserve of men on which it could draw, even after a huge deafeat like Canae.

I think granaires at 2/3 would be fine, with either the ability to irrigate hils, or the ability to irrigate sans fresh water.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by skywalker
How could the Great Wall be anything other than what it is?

I think that a case could be made for industrious -- it took a hell of a lot of work to put that thing together. As for militaristic -- well, it's not really intended to help a militeristic culture as much as defend against one, in my view.

[vmxa1]

Why could they not make the Great Wall trigger a GA for China?

[The Mad Monk]

What do you mean? Isn't China industrious as well?

[bobbo008]

i think having agricultural JUST having cheaper granaries wouldn't work, as the great pyramid would basically make the trait useless (assuming one built it).

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
What do you mean? Isn't China industrious as well?

Sorry I should have included some of the prior stuff. This was in respond to a proposed change of trait for China, where they would no longer have IND trait and hence not get a GA from the wall.
I was asking, why the game could not be rigged to allow it in the case of China, if they drop IND.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by bobbo008
i think having agricultural JUST having cheaper granaries wouldn't work, as the great pyramid would basically make the trait useless (assuming one built it).

Getting free Granaries in every city, even if they only cost 40 Shields, would still be one of the best Wonder abilities in the game. Still, you're right that Agricultural would get "shafted" with respect to one of the Wonders, and that would be a first. It would not bother me much, however.

/me dreams of cheap Granaries and Industrious Workers.


Dominae

[Kuciwalker]

Maybe the cities could get the 20 extra shields as a one-time influx.

[The Mad Monk]

Okay, I understand now.

Would you favor scripted GA for other culture - wonder pairs?
Egypt and Pyramids
Babylon and Hanging Gardens
Greece and...well, pretty much the rest of the ancient wonders...