Which Civs should be added after PTW? (part 2...)

[raen1978]

Since i can reply to civ3-civilizations, i have to reply to here. I only found this forum today... and i was hopping for something like this, and there it is and then i cant reply...but ok, no problem. Some people say that are not information about Portugal, but here it is:

History:

http://www.1upinfo.com/country-guide-study/portugal/portugal20.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/portugal_history.asp

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/europe/portugal/history.htm

http://www.en.eun.org/eun.org2/eun/en/vs-history/content.cfm?lang=en&ov=4707

Units:

http://www.viriatus.com/catalog.asp?Escala=54&Per=Z

The Leader, D. Afonso Henriques, first King of Portugal, known
as "the conqueror", here is a biography:

http://www.vidaslusofonas.pt/afonso_henriques2.htm

Another possible leaders:

http://www.cemed.ua.pt/nonio/Trabalhos/A_monarquia_p/

http://www.cemed.ua.pt/nonio/Trabalhos/A_monarquia_p/afonsina.htm

http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/eurvoya/portover.html

I think Portuguese and Dutch deserve to be in Civilization, and i am patient as it seems because 10 years (since i first played civ 1) had passed and no Portuguese yet... Doesnt mean i dont love civilization, it´s my favourite game of all times

(sorry if my english is to bad)

[bobbo008]

hmmm... portuguese and you want portuguese as a civilization?

As being Norweigan, I say I want the Norweigan civilization, not this Scandinavia crap.

[raen1978]

Originally posted by bobbo008
hmmm... portuguese and you want portuguese as a civilization?

As being Norweigan, I say I want the Norweigan civilization, not this Scandinavia crap.

Hmmm your question is a trick or something? lol

But answering it, I am Portuguese and want Potuguese in Civilization because they deserve, if not deserve i didn´t say it... You know the wonder magellean´s expedition that is in Civ, "Fernão de magalhães" is Portuguese....

I dont know who was the most important or powerful, if was Scandinavia or Norweigan. For example, Portuguese ascendents were The Visigoths, but they lost half of Portugal to the mours/muslin. Dom afonso Henriques regained it. And the importance of Portugal came in 1500 with the discoveries of the new world with the first caravel, Portugal ruled the world for 100 years among with spain. And later English, Dutch and French.. that´s why i think dutch and Portuguese deserve to be in the game.

[dexters]

To be quite fair, and not this nationalistic nonesense of people endorsing their own nations, I need to raise the point that The Polynesians, which settled much of the south pacific needs to be represented.

[Spiffor]

Well, even though I rather agree on Portugal, Netherlands and Poland, I don't think of European civilizations as a priority for now.

The Civs that I'd really like to see :

- One or two SouthEast Asian Civs. I think the Khmers and the Javanese make a good combination, since the Khmers were continental types, while the Javanese had a huge maritime prowess. Otherwise, Khmers can be replaced by Viets, since the Viets have nearly always been the major players in the Peninsula. I however prefer the Khmers because they have built the Angkor Wat wonder
Please notice that these civilizations are quite different to each other, and they have all built their own organized empires, with as much rivalry and diplomacy as what you'd expect from the usual European / ME Civ.

- One new subsaharian African Civ (Mali or Ethiopia)
I'm partial to Mali, because the biggest achievement of Ethiopia is to have an organized government for more than a millenium -something rare in precolonial Africa.
OTOH, the Mali empire was a highly commercial Civ, whose wealth rested on transsaharian trade with the Arabs, notably slave trade. It has spanned on most of the West African Savannah for more than 200 years, and could be used to represent West African empires as a whole the same way the Iroquois represent the North American natives. There were several competing empires in Western Africa for about 500 years, the Mali could represent them all.

[Wittlich]

IMO, one of the many things I liked about the CTP series was the wide choices of civilizations to play with. With today's programming technology, we shouldn't be so limited in our choice of civs in a given game (and CTP1/2 is OLD on a software standpoint).

[raen1978]

Originally posted by dexters
To be quite fair, and not this nationalistic nonesense of people endorsing their own nations, I need to raise the point that The Polynesians, which settled much of the south pacific needs to be represented.

You think i am not fair? nationalistic nonesense? The proofs speak from them selfs... but one thing you be sure I endorse justice, even if is only a game...

But besides all I only posted this because i wanted to reply to the other forum....but ok....

If you say that Polynesians must be represented, no problem with that, but must have some substancial information. But as I care I would like to have them all in Civilization. And you gonna say ->"edit it", and I say -> "problems with that, because are at least one problem, for example, edited civilizations dont enter in scores...."

no hard feelings

[Spiffor]

Wittlich :
Well, what I really didn't like in CtP, actually, was the complete lack of identity of the Civs. I like the Civ3's way better, because the animated leaderheads, UUs and Ci traits make them more unique
However, I do think more Civs would be great for the next expansion

[bobbo008]

"I dont know who was the most important or powerful, if was Scandinavia or Norweigan."

Norway is part of Scandinavia.

i am also not sure about maybe including Poland as a nation, as world-wide it hasnt had that much of an influence.

[Azeem]

Hmm... How about these civs added to the mix?

Americas
Mayans
Incas

Africa
Nubians
Mali

Southeast Asia
Khmer
Java

Mediteranean
Minoan
Phonecian

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Wittlich :
Well, what I really didn't like in CtP, actually, was the complete lack of identity of the Civs. I like the Civ3's way better, because the animated leaderheads, UUs and Ci traits make them more unique
However, I do think more Civs would be great for the next expansion

Spiffor, I agree with your philosophy. Though CTP lacked the feel of identity for the various civs, with today's technology, I feel that we can have the variety of civs (as offered in CTP) along with the leaderheads and "feel" of the unique civ (as offered in CIV3)...I, for one, don't think its too much to ask for in a game given today's programming advances along with higher capacity PCs.

[Senor Llera]

New Civs

While there may be strong arguments for adding more Euro civs, (Portugese, Dutch, etc.) I feel that Europe is already very well-represented in this one especially when you consider that whole regions of the world like Oceania and South America are completely empty.

I don't understand why some people say that the Americas are covered just because of the ancient civs that fell apart 500 years ago........I mean, how would you feel if someone told you that North America was represented with the Sioux and Iroquois???

That being said, I would include, limiting myself to 7:

Incas,
Israelis,
Polynesians,
Byzantines,
Aboriginal Australians,
Ethiopians,
Latin Americans.
(Religous, Militaristic)
Leader: Simon Bolivar
UU: Guerilla

After much wrangling, I decided that realistically if Firaxis gives us anything to represent modern day Latin America, it would be probably be only 1 slot therefore instead of just a Mexico or Columbia, I went with a big Latin American civ that would encompass all of them. (The way it was supposed to be, in my mind) Simon Bolivar would be the obvious leader.

On a side note, what would really be awesome would be if the faces of the people represent the diversity of Latin America. (EX, mostly whites in Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Indigenous in Mexico, Central America, and strong African populations in the Carribbean). Sooo, For example, instead of just one race when you pop open a city, there would be several, some white, some Indigenous/mixed and some African. I think they should do the same to the American civ and perhaps a few more.

[dexters]

Originally posted by raen1978


You think i am not fair? nationalistic nonesense? The proofs speak from them selfs... but one thing you be sure I endorse justice, even if is only a game...

But besides all I only posted this because i wanted to reply to the other forum....but ok....

If you say that Polynesians must be represented, no problem with that, but must have some substancial information. But as I care I would like to have them all in Civilization. And you gonna say ->"edit it", and I say -> "problems with that, because are at least one problem, for example, edited civilizations dont enter in scores...."

no hard feelings

None at all. I have having some issues (which I explained in another thread) and my hostility was not aimed at you.

You've got some good ideas there.

[raen1978]

Originally posted by Wittlich


Spiffor, I agree with your philosophy. Though CTP lacked the feel of identity for the various civs, with today's technology, I feel that we can have the variety of civs (as offered in CTP) along with the leaderheads and "feel" of the unique civ (as offered in CIV3)...I, for one, don't think its too much to ask for in a game given today's programming advances along with higher capacity PCs.

The Problem here is exactly the identity issue, if I had an powerful editor and scores entering in hall of fame I would be satisfied, because the rest of the game is all there

I think programmers of games are too much worried of doing things with better graphics, what is very good, but sometimes the information part is forgetted or they dont have time for it. But if they want i do it my self

[bobbo008]

"whole regions of the world like Oceania and South America are completely empty."

Incas?

on a side note, i think the mayans are too similiar to the aztecs for them to be considered until you look at many other civs.