How much does the AI cheat?

[dexters]

Originally posted by Manya
Two turns in a row, int he acient age, i don't think so, especially since it was broke

Well I'm sure Catt have something good to say.

But I have PTW and have watched a couple of games on debug mode. This means I can see everything. I can enter the city view of the AI cities to see what they are building.

I've spent tons of time watching for any obvious cheats, like building things faster than they can but I haven't seen it.

AI can rush build just like humans. As for having it happen twice in a row, that is a rather vague statement on your part.

1) The rushed units probably has been sitting there. The AI does move more units to fortify cities that are being attacked.

2) If you attack turn 1 and kill a spearman but somehow didn't take the city , the only reason that can happen is if there are defenders left in the city. Otherwise, any attacking unit will move into the city square and capture it. If that is the case, the AI simply rushes another unit the new turn.

3) if AI has 0 gold, it doesn't mean it is broke. The AI Ha been programmed to make use of its gold. If it has extra gold, they will use it to trade with human and other AI players and to rush improvements and units. The AI likes to utilize its gold. Unlike most human players they tend not to keep a large bank account around, which if you ask me can be to their disadvantage.

In anycase, I've made many many trades with AI civs who have 0 in the bank, but can afford 250 gpt for techs. And no, AI doesn't cheap with gpt payments.


Frankly, the accusations that AI can build things faster is unsubstantiated. I've seen the AI rush wonders with Great Leaders, and rush units with gold or population. It plays by the human's rules 95+ of the time. If you play regent, AI gets no unit bonuses either. Below Regent, humans get production bonuses.

[dexters]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Kramsib, the difficulty level advantages the AI gets are not cheats. They are the only advantages they get for the higher levels, and if you win, you get higher scores in return (if that means anything to you).

As you stated, they know where your units are, they know the map and where resources are (though not WHAT they are).

Jaybe, from watching several debug games, I can confirm that AI does know where resources are, but they can't seem to see it if they don't have the tech. Workers usually don't even link the resource unless it is by accident through the road network.

I've seen AI cities sitting next to oil patches that aren't linked.

OTOH, YOU have a brain and can think; the AI cannot.

Let's not forget that the AI has to play through every f'ing game you play, even if it is hopeless for them. I'm assuming that if a human player is forced by gunpoint to play through a hopeless Civ3 game, say with their tiny 2 city empire vs. a huge AI, they would be doing exactly the same things human players bemoan about.

"Oh, WTF, AI so stupid. It declares war on me when it has no chance..."

Heck, if I was forced to play a game like that, I'd declare war and end my misery.

Not to mention a good amount of time, these weak AI civs, by their sheer balls of standing up to human and AI players even if they are outmatched, actually pull it off. In a recent REGENT game, I've wiped Russia off my continent. It had one island city left, just outside the Spanish coast. So what does it do? Declare war on me twice, with the second time being done just as war weariness was setting in and my Russian cities were revolting. It also managed to sign several trade embargos against me with Egypt and spain. I decided to end their misery only to find out they had an MPP with the English, who I just recently made peace with to reduce war weariness. Guess what happen? Next turn, my economy is paralysed by mass revolts. Tell me. Does a human have the guts to play a gambit like that? A 4 pop 1 city Civ, bringing down the economy of a world superpower. This is like Al Queda shutting down all the American cities.

Heck, that would be a major victory for anyone.

Most human players quit at the outset of a percieved loss. I admire the AI's emotionless play. It makes then better in so many ways than human players.

If people want intelligent AI, Firaxis should make is so that as you are winning, the AI will inadvertantly quit the game, or reload from a saved game. Or how about an AI who refuses to play a map because they have a bad starting location.

Humans cheat so much, the fact that the AI knows the map, general resource locations (but not the resources) and where units are, is at best, a small small advantage.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Very well said Dexters

[Cruddy]

Oh, right, I thought this thread was about listing things the AI cheats at. Not about why such a list is meaningless.

Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.

Edit: And as for the computer knowing where my fighters are, that's garbage. If the fighters are fortified, the computer will bomb me. If the fighters are on air superiority missions, they will chicken out. The computer doesn't just know where my units are, it knows what orders I have given my units.

[statusperfect]

Here is a BRUTAL cheat. Do a survey of the aztec city building universal suffrage. Then end the turn.

[Harovan]

Doesn't load, your file. What version is that?

[bobbo008]

nobody mentioned the obvious one. lets say you trade maps with one, and you see they found an island that nobody knew about. if you look at the ocean, its all black except a straight streak right to the island, meaning they knew where it was and headed straight for it (if that makes sense to all of you). this happens at least one a game for me.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by bobbo008
nobody mentioned the obvious one. lets say you trade maps with one, and you see they found an island that nobody knew about. if you look at the ocean, its all black except a straight streak right to the island, meaning they knew where it was and headed straight for it (if that makes sense to all of you). this happens at least one a game for me.

I mentioned. The AI knows the entire map.

[Kuciwalker]

Actually, I usually explore in a straight line too.

[Spiffor]

I don't know if the AI knows the positionment of your troops, but it sure knows if you have undefended cities, and where they are. It affects their diplomatic stance (more prone to declare war) and their attack tactics

[statusperfect]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Doesn't load, your file. What version is that?

Ptw 1.21. It shows the AI one turn having 213 turns left on the US in a siza 6 backwater city... and the next turn it's finished.

[Spiffor]

Statusperfect :
Don't the Aztecs have a great Leader somewhere, able to arrive in their city next turn ?

[Kuciwalker]

I second that question. From what I've seen, there's usually a good explanation for what looks like AI cheating.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by statusperfect
Ptw 1.21. It shows the AI one turn having 213 turns left on the US in a siza 6 backwater city... and the next turn it's finished.

I replayed it. As others mentioned, it's most likely a leader usage. The Aztecs are at war with the Celts.

[dexters]

Originally posted by bobbo008
nobody mentioned the obvious one. lets say you trade maps with one, and you see they found an island that nobody knew about. if you look at the ocean, its all black except a straight streak right to the island, meaning they knew where it was and headed straight for it (if that makes sense to all of you). this happens at least one a game for me.

They may have a general sense of land masses, but I played a recent Continents game (16 civs) where the Russian Island was not discovered until very late in the game.

It was the Greeks who discovered it.

So no, they don't just go in a straight line to every land mass there is.


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Not sure what Sir Ralph is talking about, but I've seen AI use GL to rush wonders.