RP FA thread 1

[Jon Miller]

I don't know who are covering these guys

Jon Miller

[Beta]

Pulled from the other thread - dated 28 Feb.

This came with the 1450bc save from Togas of RolePlay. I am checking with nathan of Gs to see how we want to play this - and whether we can use Cod of Laws to snag Literature as well.

Guys,

Not sure why Nuclear Winter hasn't PM'd this to you, but anyhow, we have
Literature now and we would like to trade it to you. Can you offer us anything
for it? Tech? Gold? Etc? Please let me know. We would like to offer it to you
next turn if possible.

[Beta]

Pulled from other thread - dated 4 March:

From Roleplay: Regarding Lux Invicta
Betahound,

This is a delicate matter that I felt would be better addressed with a letter from one leader to another. I don't want to funnel the message through a few ambassadors, as it might not be communicated very well.

My nation and yours have no formal relations and other than a few talks I had with Jon Miller ... back when he was your leader, we really haven't talked. We have not completed any deals with you, nor have we received any offers. Furthermore, it seems that when we do make offers, they are ignored.

On Sunday I received a message from Trip of Lux Invicta telling me that he was sorry, but that he could not go through with the deal we had made regarding Writing, because he "has to" trade with your nation instead. When I pressed him in chat he was evasive, couldn't explain it much further, but kept insisting that in his curent situation he had "no choice" but to trade with Vox instead of Spain.

Now, I wouldn't want to seem too paranoid, but it does seem to us that Vox Controli is acting in a very hostile mannor to Spain. We'd like to understand why it is that Vox is so disinterested in maintaining a friendship with Spain and why you would threaten Lux in such a mannor that they would cancel a deal they had with us.

I think that our two nations should sit down and discuss this very soon, at least before the cold shoulder turns into a cold war. We have relations with your rivals, Gathering Storm, and we trade with them. We would like to also trade with you.

Please contact me soon so that we can personally discuss this.

--Togas

[Beta]

Pulled from other thread - Dated 4 March

Damage control, with RolePlay:

Togas - my apologies that it has come to this. We meant no offence. And trust me on this one when I say that if you are frustrated by recent events, we are many times more so. Our good intent is clearly not what has come across through Lux, and as you can guess, the story is somewhat different than is being relayed to you. Hostility towards you has never been one of our intentions.

We had little idea as to what was being presented to the international community, and I regret that I have not contacted RolePlay earlier to set the matter straight. We value RP's early friendship. We also value our reputation, which appears to getting dragged through the mud without our knowledge, and based on incorrect information.

I appreciate you writing me. We have some serious deliberations at Vox. I will touch base shortly with you for a longer conversation. For now, you have Vox's apologies, and our best regards.

Sincerely ... Beta

[Beta]

Pulled from other thread - 6 March

from Roleplay.

Dissident,

Thank you for writing us. I have posted your message to our Diplomacy Forum.

I think it would be beneficial to us both to find a time to meet in chat and discuss some of our concerns and perhaps clear up the story with Lux Invicta. We generally only hear Lux's side of the story, as Trip is very talkative and very proactive with diplomacy. I'd like to know what Vox is going through and hear your side of the story.

Please talk with Betahound and see if a chat can be arranged, perhaps this weekend?

--Togas

[Beta]

PUlled from other thread - dated 6 March:

Received from Togas.

From Roleplay to Vox Controli
Betahound,

Wow... hard to comment on the demise of Lux Invicta. Seems ironic that it was your nation that destroyed them, with everyone else on my nation so rabbidly anti-Lux. They would have been dead quite a while ago if not for your team's very costly gift to them of a city. Trip had come to me with a similar proposal and I turned him down immediately. My team doesn't have extra cities to give away, I doubt yours did either.

Any chance you'll ever go public with why things turned out so bad? I can't help but wonder if my own PM to you about Trip's comments sparked some sort of change of heart by your nation. If that were the case, I would feel horrible.

But back to business, we would like to trade you Literature. We'd like to know if you have anything to offer in exchange for it. If not, we'd like to find out what you're researching now and possibly trade you Literature for it when you're done. Please get back to me soon on this.

I'm also very curious about how things are going over there. Looking at what the Domestic Guys from Gathering Storm are proposing for our ISDG team ... I'm positive they're using a similar borg style for Gathering Storm's cities. I'm going to be very curious to see how your style of building matches up with the Storm's experts. Maybe sometime you'll let us know ... especially if you guys end up taking them out.

Lastly, my Ambassador, Nuclear Winter, has returned and should be contacting you shortly. If you hear from him and me, please feel free to contact him first.

Thanks!

--Togas

[Beta]

Pulled from other thread - dated 7 March:

Received from Togas of RP via e-mail with the save. Now I really regret doing in Lux based partly on the previous letter from RP.

"My turnplayer was away, so I couldn't do turn until I got back from work.


I just have to ask why it is that Vox won't respond to any of our trade offers?
Why treat us this way? Why make deals with Gathering Storm for Literature when
you know that we want to also sell it to you, and that we worked tirelessly for
hundreds of years to create this knowledge? Why not even write us back a simple
letter saying that you'r sorry, but you decided to buy it from someone else??

Please TALK to us at least. Even if you won't buy anything from us or trade with
us, we'd at least like to know why we are being ignored.

--Togas"

[Dis]

OK I can take over FA for these guys.

We had a good chat session tonight.

So much talk, but we didn't agree to much . But I think we improved relations and have a much better feel for the goings on on their continent and their plans for the future.

The big point is starting on turn 70- which is next turn (not 1300) we will go into a 50 turn non agression agreement.

It will be formalized tomorrow.

[Dis]

E-mail from Roleplay. I have sent a response ratifying it.

I, Nuclearis Winterius the II, ambassdor of Spanish
Roleplay team,through the powers to me conceeded by
Togas, soberan of the Roleplay team, ratify by this a
guarantee that our team shall not take part in any
agressive action against the team of Vox Controli, for
the lenght of 50 game turns, starting from the turn in
wich the pact is signed.
As a condition, Vox Controli agrees not to take part in
any agressive action against the Roleplay team for the
lenght of 50 game turns, starting from the turn in wich
the pact is signed.

This agreement looses all value if any given side
refuses to sign it. To validate a signature, one side
msut send this message to the other with the siganture
of the team´s leader or the team´s ambassdor in the
leader´s name.
Signed
Nuclearis Winterius the II, official ambassdor of
Roleplay team with Vox Controli Team.

[Beta]

Here is the log of last night's chat session. E_T sent it to me via e-mail. I have to do it as two posts.

Session Start: Mon Mar 10 13:49:23 2003
Session Ident: #RV
* Now talking in #RV
* E_T sets mode: +o GeneralTacticus
[Togas> All 3 of us will show up as Stronger than Vox, I am sure.
[Jon_Miller> hmm, what makes you think that we are interested in joining your continent?
[Jon_Miller> ours sounds much more pleasent
[Togas> You don't want to, trust me
[Jon_Miller>
[Togas> however, I'm not sure if your people want to leave your island in the future or not .... can you tell us? Do you have enogh room over there to grow sucessfully?
[E_T> with the fashion that Lux has left the world, GoW and ND were not weakened from the war
[Dissident> that's tough to gauge. I'm not sure how much room the other nations have to work with
[Jon_Miller> we have a successful peace treaty with GS which wioll hold us for a while
[Togas> There IS room in old Luxia, but that room is being eaten up ... I understand that there are also other islands, one to your east.
[Dissident> as for room we aren't too bad. The arrangement of our continent isn't the best for corruption though
[NuclearisWinterius> does your naiton has any colonial desires on the main land?
[E_T> All of the reports that we have of the northern part of the contenant have shown that there wasn't that much room for 3 Nations to co-exsist
[Dissident> well there would be 2 nations in the northern part now right?
[Dissident> wonder how they will co-exist
[E_T> we are still scouting out that terrain and gathering more information form our parties
[Togas> We'll find out in the middle ages
[E_T> if not before
[Togas> In the middle ages the Arab Siphani and the Chinese Rider ... both 3 move UUs ... will rule our continent
[BetaHound> hunker down
[E_T> The Ghengis of Farb is unhappy with they way that the war turned out, he was wanting to have the opertunity for a Great Leader of men to come forth
[Togas> Right now we're getting along with our northern neighbors, but we also look to the future. We can't just continue to trade with them alone.
[Dissident> yes I just realized that
[Jon_Miller> well, maybe Genghis should step down then
[Dissident> luckily for us our neighbor has a very early uu. It is already obsolete pretty much
[Jon_Miller> since he was unable to vreate a great leader of men
[Togas> We need friends in other places so that we can continue to trade in the event of a major continental war.
[Jon_Miller> ah yes
[Jon_Miller> we like freinds also
[Togas> and we also believe that through friendship and alliances that we will be able to last through the "dark ages" that are in store for us
[Dissident> that is understandable
[E_T> and we never know when you might be faced with having to deal with your southern neighbors in the same fashion
[Togas> I understand that you have been busy and that your team is very small, but we really are hoping that we can convince you that responding to our PMs and talking to us is worth your time.
[NuclearisWinterius> Responding to Pms...
[NuclearisWinterius>
[E_T> so trade and communication is important to us all
[Dissident> Yes in the future you can PM me. I check my PM's at least once a day.
[Togas> Furthermore, we hope that we can become a reliable source of information for you about what occurs in our world.
[Dissident> My box is never full. I'm not very popular
[BetaHound> Sorry....
[BetaHound> About my PM box being full that is.
[BetaHound> It wasn't a comment on your pouolarity Diss
[BetaHound> popularity
[BetaHound>
[E_T> we have also found that sending messages via e-mail have been more efficient, especially when 'Poly has been having it's fits
[NuclearisWinterius> In fact, maybe M´lord could gimme my ambassdorship back now all the mess is clarified...
[Togas> One thing we need to understand is this: Should we send you tech offers in the future? It seems that you have a deal with GS, and that if we sell something to them, they get it to you.
* Togas grins.
[Jon_Miller> we have philosphy
[Jon_Miller> which we could trade with you
[Togas> We WOULD have been happy to aquire it from you, however, GoW aquired it and made us an offer already
[Jon_Miller> ah
[BetaHound> Togas - if that was the case - why are we buying map making from GoW.
[Togas> I suppose that's a part of the problem ... we need to be in contact more often.
[Jon_Miller> and they gave you a good deal on it
[Togas> GoW gave us a good deal on MM and Philosphy
[Jon_Miller> ah
[Jon_Miller> ok
[Togas> we traded them literature and some gold.
[Jon_Miller> ok
[Togas> I'm not fond of working through GoW middlemen either
[Dissident> that is why they do not need literature from us then
[Togas> I'd rather directly buy techs from other nations.
* NuclearisWinterius has quit IRC (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Nuruke)))
[Jon_Miller> what?
[Togas> Your literature was from GS who aquired it from us.
* NuclearisWinterius has joined #RV
[Togas> technology moves and trades at an alarming rate, it seems.
[Dissident> I meant GOW
* E_T sets mode: +o NuclearisWinterius
[BetaHound> Yes - but that was an arranged deal - fro HB riding which they still did not have yet
[Dissident> GOW was very picky about what they wanted
[E_T> hmmm
[Togas> We're not so picky.
[Dissident> They do seem skillful at getting a good circle of techs going to them
[NuclearisWinterius> About that excert, beta.
[NuclearisWinterius> Regarding the question of favored nation status for trading, we of the One Voice think this to be an excellent proposal. We would like to reciprocate this honor, and when we are in a position to discuss trades, we will extend the same benefit to you. Together, we are stronger.
[NuclearisWinterius> Now, regarding the matter of the non-agression pact - well, I will be honest with you - this has generated much debate within our civilization. Please keep this quiet, we of the One Voice are often, how shall I put it, not embarassed, but rather self-conscious about our own internal discussions. As you know, we like to speak with One Voice, as is our law and our custom, and yet occasionally the way of the One Voice and
[NuclearisWinterius> Some questions have arisen as to the validity of such a pact in the first place. It may help our debarting process if we knew how you would see this pact working. Is it public to other civs? Does it supercede pacts made within the game? Is it more than just a pledge of friendship, or do you see it stronger than that? No doubt you must have discussed this amongst your people, so if you can share more information, it wou
[Togas> but we're not as desperate as GoW, they're very good at giving bargain basement prices on unbelieveable deals ... but you have to sign the contract NOW or forget it.
[Togas> GoW takes the phrase "techwhore" to a new level... :/
[Dissident> yes those messages seem familiar. Way back when
[Dissident> I'm not sure when they were dated
[E_T> and then if you try to work out a future deal, they sometimes forget that the deal was made for the future and don't take in to account that you might still be researching that technology
[Togas> anyhow, back to my question: Should we sent you offers or not?
* Thud has joined #RV
* E_T sets mode: +o Thud
[BetaHound> Thanks NW - I do remember it now. Again - my apologies. My brain is only 256K and it is full.
[Jon_Miller> yes you shou;d
[Jon_Miller> we want offers
[Togas> The reality of the market is that you can pretty much get any tech from anybody for any price.
[Jon_Miller> we don't get everything from GS right away
[Togas> What it comes down to, really, is who do you want to give your gold to.
[Jon_Miller> we just have a red phone line to them
[Jon_Miller>
[Togas>
[Dissident> yes I'm interested in deals. We can trade with you not GOW
[Togas> We'll send offers your way and trade requests, but we need to hear back from you ... at least say "sorry, we can't do it", OK?
[Dissident> But you are right. It's a matter of who you want to give the gold to.
* NuclearisWinterius has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[BetaHound> which raises a question - have you lit to GoW
[BetaHound> traded lit
[Dissident> So often it can be between you and GOW. Strangely I don't remember doing hardly any deals with New Demo
[BetaHound> nope - none
[Togas> we have sent them our offer, they have to hit accept then we hit accept, so I think the trade goes through in a turn.
[Jon_Miller> h
[Jon_Miller> ah
[BetaHound> ah - us too.
[Jon_Miller> what would you want for mapmaking?
[Togas> You know, we haven't even thought about it ...
[Dissident> But we do like to see the power structure stay even on the main continent.
[Togas> as we still don't have it. Hold on, if you're serious, I can ask my guys in another screen, see what price we come up with.
[Dissident> Yes if you don't have any plans. Then maybe we can work out a deal.
[Dissident> Do you guys see Glory of War becoming that strong a power on the main continent?
[Togas> We're unsure. It's a strange balance now ... ND, GoW, us.
[Togas> it really depends on who gets killed off in the middle ages.
[Togas> and how that war turns out. We're 100% sure both of those nation will want to use their UUs
[Togas> we're hoping to convince them to fight each other and not us, but since we're the ones without cool UUs .....
[Dissident> they are tempting to use
[E_T> we know that they willwant to use those UU's at some point, we just hope we'll be ready for them.
[Togas> We're surprised you guys haven't unleashed an Immortal wave of terror on your continent
[E_T> but that's why we work so hard to be as diplomatic as we can be, to help compenstat for that
* NuclearisWinterius has joined #RV
* E_T sets mode: +o NuclearisWinterius
[Togas> Three questions:
[NuclearisWinterius> my connection is horrible these days...
[Togas> 1) How are things going over there? Will it be peace and prosperity forever?
[Togas> 2) Will you consider the sale of your WM?
[Togas> 3) are you able to tell us how much GoW wanted you to pay for MM?
[Dissident> As for our continent. Things do look to be good. I don't see any wars any time soon.
[E_T> at least you don't have a Dubya to your south ...
[BetaHound> As for the map - probably not in the near future.
[Dissident> I think he meant the tech
[Jon_Miller> no WM
[Dissident> my bad. 2 seperate inquiries
[Jon_Miller> hey, idd we just perchase MM from GoW?
[BetaHound> WM-world map - right?
[Togas> WM = World Map
[Togas> MM = Map making
[Togas> If you haven't purchased it yet, we'd be happy to outbid them for a change ... they seem to usually outbid us
[E_T> and for the reference, TM is territory Map
[BetaHound> k
[Dissident> so you have MM? I thought you didn't
[Togas> We should next turn, after GoW accepts the deal
[Togas> The PTW diplomacy system is annoying ... takes at least a turn before the deal actually goes through
[E_T> that's why communication is very important, to help smooth that process out
[BetaHound> yes
[Togas> While you discuss this, I'd like to ask another question:
[Togas> 4) Would you be at all interested in a TM for TM exchange?
[BetaHound> May I ask why?
[Togas> We'd like to see where you are in relation to us, get a better idea of what the world looks like.
[E_T> and you the same
[Togas> all we know is that you were very close to Luxia, and that you're north of GS.
[BetaHound> That is right. We are north and east of you.
[Dissident> yes there is a straight between us and some empty land
[Dissident> It wasn't actually settled by Lux.
[Dissident> have we named that straight yet? we should
[BetaHound> Wittlich strait
[Dissident> sounds good
[BetaHound> after Wittlich City
[Dissident> of course you guys already know the story of how Trip did not guard the contact point
[Togas> Can you reveal the asking price by GoW for Mapmaking?
[Togas> oh yes, GoW told us about it, but is there more to the story?
[Dissident> there has been some confusion over that
[E_T> or give us a hint...
[BetaHound> more than 10 and less than 150
[Dissident> Glory was asking a pretty high price for it
[BetaHound>
[Togas> Is it greater than or less than 40g?
[Dissident> Perhaps they have had a change of heart?
[BetaHound> Not to avoid the topic - but can we go back to the non-agression pact.
[Togas> we'd be happy to discus it next.
[BetaHound> What exactly do you envision in such a pact?
* E_T has to go and have a cigarette..... nickfit.....
[NuclearisWinterius> about this trip´s deal, could you please tell it, as we have only heard comments about it
[Jon_Miller> hmm?
[Dissident> trips deal? Boy that was complicated. I wasn't involved in working it out. We had like what, 15 provisions? haha
[Togas> I think the "Vox saves Lux Invicta" deal has to be the greatest deal passed (so far) in this game!
[Dissident> we did have good motives of course. We hated to see a team go out so early
[Togas> ... anyhow, let's do 1 topic at a time, do you guys mind if we finish up the Mapmaking discussion first and then move onto Non-agg pact?
[Dissident> It made it more exciting to still have all the teams
[Dissident> we were hoping they could find a place to stay
[Dissident> they were a tough houseguest
[Togas> re Lux deal: I was impressed and shocked. WE certainly didn't have any cities to give away, and I doubt you did either. It must have been a tremendous sacrifice.
[Dissident> on the map making. hold one a sec. I'm checking communications with Glory
[Jon_Miller> it was
[Jon_Miller> especially since it unballanced things with GS
[Jon_Miller> and a lot of otherunexpected came up also
[Togas> Was GS very angry at your deal with Lux?
[BetaHound> surprised
[Togas> did they protest or try to convince you to change your mind?
[Jon_Miller> we did have to deal with them also than
[Jon_Miller> only Lego seemed to be truly for our deal with Lux
[Togas> heck, we weren't against it at all
[BetaHound> ahem...
[Togas> we were rather amused It was funny to see GoW and ND armies searching in vain for the lost Lux city
[Togas> but back to business.
[Jon_Miller> I am getting some food
[Jon_Miller> see ya in a bit
[Dissident> yes that was fun. we could only imagine.
[Dissident> as for the map making, our deal with Glory seems final.
[Dissident> I am perfectly willing to trade with you over them, but I don't want to break
[Dissident> a deal we have worked out with glory
[Dissident> We should already have map making. But they put up another offer along with it. So we could not accept this turn
[Togas> That's a shame. But we understand. I hope that we can talk with you sooner in the future, we would have been willing to bargain against GoW, in the end you'd pay less.
[Dissident> I understand. If this deal wasn't final then I would love to negotiate.
[Dissident> but unless the deal falls through somehow, that may not be possible
[E_T> much less, from what you had told us...
[Togas> we gave them 40gold, and we would have been happy just to have you give us the 40 and call it even
[Dissident> well glory did lower their price quite a bit. I'm not sure why. perhaps because they didn't want you to trade it to us.
[Togas> perhaps
[Dissident> again I would probably prefer to trade with you. But I do not want to break a deal that seems final
[Togas> they have done that to us in the past a few times
[Dissident> now that we seem to have the FA sitation with Glory and your team worked out. In the future I'm sure we can work something out
[Togas> that's very good to hear.
[Dissident> As there will be less confusion. Glory started the process early.
[Togas> Let move onto the Non-agg discussion
[Jon_Miller> oh
[Jon_Miller> BWT
[Jon_Miller> Diss is our new FA to you, RP
[Dissident> and I was not aware of an offer from you for map making. I did see an offer for another tech though.
[Dissident> So in the future we can contact your team first for such trades
[Jon_Miller> (I am getting bagels)
[Togas> Yes, we never did offer MM, so that's not your fault at all
[Dissident> and I'm sure this could work out better
[NuclearisWinterius> Well, then let us beggin the talk on NAP(non-agrassion-Pact
[Togas> Nuc Winter is our official contact, so you should PM him and also PM myself if you have an urgent matter.
[Dissident> on a side note. I would love to trade with your fine nation. Can you divulge what you are aiming for next?
[Togas> We are currently researching Polytheism.
[E_T> maybe we could try to get in touch about 5 turns in advance of when we are about to finish researching something, just to get the ball started
[Togas> As we are a Religious civ
[Dissident> that sounds good
[NuclearisWinterius> I tell you, there are many gods up there?
[E_T> and we could ask the same of you, too
[NuclearisWinterius> ?=!
[BetaHound> roughly when will you be finished poly.
[Dissident> our gods? Perhaps we are not quite as religious, but our people do have a strong spiritual contact
[Togas> 10-15 turns. Depends on if our research increases with our growth.
[Dissident> it has proven quite useful
[E_T> What was it Togas, I can't remember what you reported
[E_T> crosspost
[NuclearisWinterius> I´ll have to leave. Adios!
[Togas> take care, Nuc. Sleep well.
[E_T> he has to get up for work in about 5 hours
[Togas> actually, it may be closer to 15, as the settlers seem to always screw up our research rates
* NuclearisWinterius has quit IRC (Quit: )
[E_T> that's why 5 turns is a better deal, as those factors don't make that much of a difference when your that close to the end
[Togas> What are you researching and when do you expect to finish?
[Dissident> we have just finished a grand research project
[Dissident> It allows our thinkers to ponder the existance of man (and woman)
[Dissident> We are still undecided on what to research next. It seems silly to do Poly if you guys are doing it. Perhaps we can work out a deal
[Dissident> We may go for currency
[Dissident> as we love money
[Dissident> or we will love money once we get some
[Togas> Currency is a wise move. Rumors are that the Neu Dem tribe is working on it, but such is the speculation of GoW only.
[E_T> especially after having to shell out a bit to GoW...
[Togas> Neu Dem has not told us yet what they are researching, and their research rate has been very low.
[Dissident> have you had many trades with New Demo. our contact has been very limited actually
[Togas> I believe we've made 2 trades with them.
[Togas> they're not very talkative
[Togas> we have dealt more with other, more vocal civs.
[Dissident> perhaps a language barrier
[Togas> very likely
[E_T> we have kept our relations with them fairly open. we had hoped to keep Lux alive by being the middleman in their negotiations, but Lux then made that Impossible with their actions
[

[Beta]

Part 2

[Togas> back to the Non-agg -- it is basically a peace treaty, an agreement that we will not go to war or fight each other for a set period of time.
[Dissident> I think we are prepared to agree to that.
[Dissident> any set time frame?
[Togas> in the past we've used 20 turns as a good #, but in your nation's case, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't go longer.
[Togas> do you prefer a long term or short term agreement?
[Dissident> we could do longer
[Dissident> 40 or 50?
[Togas> 50 is fine by us.
[Togas> Would commit us both to a long and lasting peace
[Dissident> It's not a multiple of 20, but it does seem like a good even number
[Dissident> 50 sounds good
[Togas> and hopefully be a start to future friendship
[BetaHound> and if one of us gets into a war...
[Dissident> yes I hope so
[Togas> it's not an alliance, of course. But we're open to talking about that later on if you are.
[Dissident> yes that would be for later. For now we would like to establish a friendship with the Espania nation
[Togas> very good.
[Togas> should I have Nuc Winter write something formal up or will this chat be sufficient?
[Jon_Miller> we would prefer formal
[Dissident> formal agreements just look more formal
[Togas> I'll have him send something, we'll probably both sign it on turn 70. That will also make for a nice round number.
[Dissident> and it allows other team members to grasp the situation who did not participate in the chat
[E_T> he won't get it to you until atleast tomorrow
[Dissident> That's fine. Are we on turn 70 right now?
[Togas> we just finished turn 69
[BetaHound> wow
[E_T> my favorite number....
[BetaHound> hehe
[Dissident> The game does seem to move faster with less teams
[Togas> good times
[BetaHound> It is like survivor - who is next off the island.
[Dissident> We just wanted the game to move faster. So we eliminated Lux
[Togas> do you guys mind talking about why Lux was eliminated?
[BetaHound> ah - if it were that simple...
[BetaHound> It is still a sensitive issue with us.
[E_T> I'm curious, what exactly was it that Lus did that finally convinced you to repatiriate that city?
[Dissident> If Lux had been more forthcoming, things could have turned out differently
[E_T> *Lux
[Togas> did my PM have anything to do with it?
[BetaHound> yes
[Thud>
[BetaHound> as did others
[E_T> Yes, Togas was very concerned about that
[Togas> ah ... ET was right :/
[Dissident> well we don't want you to feel guilty
[Dissident> we do feel kind of guilty as well. We really wanted it to work.
[BetaHound> the decision was ours and ours alone
[Thud> i have to go. i'm sure you'll miss my informed commentary
[Dissident> As it offered the game many more possiblities
[Togas> sleep well, Thud.
[BetaHound> peace Thud
[E_T> LOL
[E_T> but before you do...
[Dissident> we were thinking Lux would find land and later in the game nuke New Demo
* E_T slaps Thud around a bit with a large trout
* Thud slaps E_T around a bit with a large trout
[Dissident> that would have been interesting
* Thud has quit IRC (Quit: )
[Dissident> more teams does make the game more interesting
[Togas> Trip was being Trip, though. He never did stop talking to every nation he knew.
[Dissident> I'm in a PBEM with only 3 people left. And no one is warring. so things aren't real exciting
[BetaHound> It would have been better if his wholle team just went underground for 30 turns or so
[E_T> what's the most number of saves that you have worked in a day?
[BetaHound> But - I don't think that is waht Trip is made of.
[Togas> he wanted to keep being as active as he used to be
[BetaHound> yes - and it caused problems
[Dissident> Perhaps if they had different diplomatic approach
[Togas> perhaps
[E_T> have you been considering having any Lux Refugees?
[Dissident> yes but no takers as of yet
[BetaHound> We are trying. No one seems to like us.
[Togas> FYI -- Trip has asked to join our team, and we're very heavily debating it.
[BetaHound> hmmmm..
[E_T> very heavily
[Dissident> I really wanted to see Trip survive long enough to make the late game interesting. But we could not see how that was possible
[Togas> we seem to have very different opinions on my team about how Trip would affect us.
[Dissident> just don't make him your FA advisor. Esp. to Vox
[Togas> don't worry
[Dissident> but he could provide useful in other areas. I'm not sure of his micromanagement skills.
[E_T> we tried as much as we could o convince him to do some thig to prevent his teams demise, but that wasn't to be
[BetaHound> I asked CiverDan - didn't even get a response.
[Togas> of course most of what we suggested was that he surrender ... make peace. Admit defeat. I think that was what was so hard for Trip to do.
[E_T> he's on our team now
[BetaHound> He seems to know his stuff.
[Dissident> calcII we have asked as well
[E_T> he's proving to be an asset
[Togas> Dan's a good guy. He's still getting used to seeing things in Spanish, but he's active and we like that.
[Jon_Miller> trip shouldn't join your team
[E_T> why do you say that?
[Jon_Miller> he claims to ahve looked at the save
[Togas> Oh really?
[E_T> WHAT?
[E_T> as in cheating?
[Dissident> I had not heard that
[Jon_Miller> after the end
[BetaHound> wow
[Jon_Miller> recently, when I was talking to him
[Togas> did he post that somewhere??
[Dissident> yes Jon has been talking to him
[Jon_Miller> know
[Jon_Miller> no, chat
[Togas> hrm. that could make things problematic.
[Jon_Miller> i want'ed to make sure no har dfeelings
[E_T> are we all ISDG here??
[Jon_Miller> but, I would consider Trip joining any team problematic (before he made that said that I had been pressiong him to join Vox)
[Dissident> not all
[Jon_Miller> no, I am not
[E_T> k
[Jon_Miller> Diss, are you not as well?
[Dissident> Eli isn't, but he asked about it. he may be now
[E_T> Dis Is IIRC
[Dissident> But we could use one more full time player on our team
[Dissident> Yes I am, but not as active as I am in this game
[BetaHound> What do you know about statusprfect?
[Togas> don't know anything about him.
[E_T> not much
[Dissident> There are so many great players. I just let them do all the talking . Vondrack seems to really know his stuff
[Jon_Miller> I remember talking to him before
[BetaHound> How about Apocalypse?
[Dissident> He's done a great job with Legoland. Considering their starting position.
[Togas> I don't think he's active anymore, but he certainly is a character
[Togas> he's a tough personality to deal with sometimes.
[BetaHound> hmm - OK. He was on Lux. High post count.
[E_T> he's in chat with Trip alot
[Dissident> yes
[Togas> he and trip are both about the same age, I think.
[Dissident> Us 3 are probably the most active members on our team. Eli isn't as active as he used to be.
[E_T> "chat buddies"
[E_T> Apoc that is
[BetaHound> k - thanks
[Dissident> I would like to pick up one Lux person. Oh well. Other members we have had haven't been real active
[BetaHound> like Flash9286
[BetaHound>
[Jon_Miller> flasdh is gome
[BetaHound>
[E_T> take a chance, if they want in, ask them some serious questions in chat, that's waht we did with CiverDan
[Jon_Miller> we cuold use another active mewmber
[Jon_Miller> we are the only three who are not advisors
[Jon_Miller> advisors are good
[BetaHound> Yup - I for one was getting worn out ...
[Jon_Miller> I know
[E_T> and it only gets harder with more cities and units
[Jon_Miller> yep
[BetaHound> we need BFM!!
[Jon_Miller> and more arranements
[Togas> he'd be pretty good to land.
[Jon_Miller> he would be nice to have, I think
[BetaHound> has he found a home yet?
[Togas> we asked BFM to join us, but he hasn't said anything yet.
[BetaHound> C'mon - you guys have lots. Share the wealth.
[E_T> BFM is looking like he want to retire from the PTW DG, but we don't know. We are courting him too.,...
[Togas>
[Togas> You guys could certainly use him, there's no denying that.
[Togas> you oughta PM him at least, send him an invite
[BetaHound> Mind you - this is doing wonders for my civ3 micro-management skills.
[Togas> in the end, we'll have to see where he wants to go, if he wants to go anywhere
[Jon_Miller> ha ha ha
[Dissident> yes we should get more proactive
[E_T> If he wants to come to us, we'll tell him to tink about ya'll first.... how that?
[BetaHound> Jon - why don't you approach him.
[Jon_Miller> ko
[Jon_Miller> but I don't know him well
[BetaHound> I think I am personna non gratta with most Lux folks.
[Jon_Miller> I know apoc thuogh
[Jon_Miller> ahh
[BetaHound> he sounds like a bit of a handful
[Togas> I hate to cut this short. It's been very positive so far, but I need to run to the supermarket.
[Jon_Miller> he thinks he is schizo
[Togas> are there any other questions that I can answer?
[BetaHound> ah - maybe not then
[Dissident> yes was there anything else we needed to discuss?
[Dissident> I think we made good progress. Ijust hope we aren't forgetting anything
[Jon_Miller> yes
[BetaHound> Again - my apologies for not getting back to you sooner.
[E_T> I'll send you all the log, as soon as I edit it for posting and I get back to my other box (with my e-mail program in it)
[Jon_Miller> diss
[Jon_Miller> your email?
[Jon_Miller> so that RP can get ahold of you
[Dissident> Krusher3X@yahoo.com
[Togas> Very good. We should meet and chat more often. I think we both benefit from this
[Dissident> make sure that gets in the log
[Jon_Miller> thanks
[Dissident> so Nuc can see it
[E_T> Question 4 do you want me to edit out that part about trip and the save?
[Jon_Miller> hmm
[Dissident> and I could use his as well. But I usually use PM's. Although sometimes I use both
[Jon_Miller> why?
[Dissident> it depends if you want your team to see that
[Togas> may want to cut out the part where we talk about the Lux recriting stuff, doesn't really seem on topic.
[E_T> or yours, it could create problems, in several games
[Togas> I do think that if my team decides to let Trip in, we should first ask him very bluntly if he did anything like that.
[Dissident> I suppose we can edit it out. But I would hope you guys would refrain from recruting trip
[Togas> and if he did, we should probably reconsider.
[Jon_Miller> sent to BFM
[Togas> we're certanly not recruting him, we just got a Pm from him where he requested to join.
[Jon_Miller> ah, maybe beofre he looked at the save?
[Jon_Miller> whenw as this?
[Togas> he PMed me on Saturday.
[E_T> How about this, I'll just edit it for posting (just copy & paste) and ya'll can edet anything that you don't think is needed in there, hows that??
[Togas> sounds fine, ET
[Jon_Miller> hmm
[Jon_Miller> just to tell you
[Jon_Miller> if trip joins you, we will tell the other teams that he claims to ahve looked at the save
[E_T> he said that?
[Dissident> well he could take an oath not to divulge such information. but I doubt we could believe him
[Togas> Gotcha. Sounds like Trip made a pretty bad impression on you guys.
[Jon_Miller> I am fine with tri[
[Jon_Miller> I was cool with him claiming to look at the save
[Dissident> But it seems to me he did that because he didn't expect to play anymore. So he shouldn't
[Togas> We're going to have to think very carefully about his request and how it would affect other teams
[Jon_Miller> I am not dine with him joinng a team afterwards
[Jon_Miller> just fairness issues there
[E_T> we don't allow cheaters, we almost had a revolt, when we accidentally sent that wrong save (the double porduction thing) along time ago
[BetaHound> I recall that.
[Togas> yes.
[Dissident> He is very into civ3. And he had some different ideas about how to play the game.
[Jon_Miller> yes
[Jon_Miller> I wish that he had not looked at the save
[Dissident> He had some great ideas that we have never thought of
[Togas> I'd like to stay and chat some more, but I'd better get going. It was very good to meet all of you and to talk with you tonight.
[Jon_Miller> I think he would still have had sometihng ot offer any team he joined
[Jon_Miller> ok
[Dissident> but his actions seem to indicate he is done with this game
[Jon_Miller> yews
[Togas> Let's do this again sometime, soon.
[Dissident> Adios
[Dissident> yes
[E_T> that's not good, for any game, IMHO
[E_T> that stupid bug
[Jon_Miller> what/?
[Togas> Viya Con Dios, Senores.
[Dissident> hey I understood that. My spanish isn't so rusty after all
[Togas>
* Togas has left #rv
[Dissident> OK I got to get something to eat. Take care
[E_T> and they still haven't fixed it with this patch, the save bug (where youcan cheat like trip did)
[BetaHound> see ya
* Dissident has quit IRC (Quit: )
* E_T slaps GeneralTacticus around a bit with a large trout
[E_T> wake up, were done...
[E_T>
* GeneralTacticus slaps E_T around a bit with a large trout
* E_T has to go ans wash this fish smell off now...
[Jon_Miller> ah
[Jon_Miller> ok
[E_T> 4 would the last one to leave, turn the light off please....
Session Close: Mon Mar 10 15:50:35 2003

[Dis]

Thanks. I wasn't sure if that would all fit in there.

[Beta]

Hi Diss. Check out the ND FA thread discussion. You may want to contact RP and see if they will commit to a deal for currency with us now. We will be later researching it than NeuD, so we would need a firm deal now.

[Dis]

sent to Nuclear Winter:

Greetings esteemed foreign affairs collegue. I hope your nation is going well. We both expressed desires for increased trading in our fireside chat on the Wittlich Straight beach the other day. And I hope we can do that. We are currently hoping for a deal for currency. We are currently researching that and hope to trade that with you for perhaps Polythesium in the future. If there is any difference in the cost our thinkers are expending I'm sure we can agree to make up the difference. Our nations thinkers are very picky about gold for their endeavers I understand. It is a bit early perhaps, but we do not want to wait too long as with Map Making. We would have liked to traded that with you if our other deal wasn't already finalized. Well it is time to get our crops planted for the spring season. So I bid you well, Dissident

[Beta]

Hi Diss - as per the discussion in the ND thread - in the follow-up correspondence to your note, can you try and find out if NeuD got Poly from RP. If yes - we may be able to buy it relatively cheaply from RP.