GS FA thread 1

[Beta]

Yes jon - it is a terrible deal. That is exactly WHY we agree to it. It makes us look like patsies and weak.

We don't agree to the gpt part. Shiber first suggested monarchy. We say we are researching it as suggested, and actually have some buyers already. And besides - it gives both of access to the hanging gardens which is a good wonder.

And we are certainly going to sell the techs when we get them. Diss' deal with RP involved currency.

So - absolutely no harm in going along with it. Make the amendments, ask about horses as suggested - the road idea was great - and lets go.

And stop worrying about the two front war. There will not be war with NeuD and GoW. Other than in the public forum. Ghengis and I even scripted it.

[mjmacy]

GREAT. this looks like Operation Immortal Beloved is really coming together.

[Beta]

Originally posted by mjmacy
GREAT. this looks like Operation Immortal Beloved is really coming together.

My sentiments exactly.

[Beta]

Their proposal.

1) The treaty lasts for a period of 20 turns.

2) in that period of 20 turns, VC gives the GS 12gpt.
3) The GS shares with VC the techs they have researched or have purchased, as soon as the GS acquires the techs, as long as these do not fall under a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) with other teams, in which the GS has agreed not to trade these techs onwards.
4) Out of all the techs given to by the GS in the 20 turn period, Republic, Currency and Construction will be for VC use only- and will not be traded by VC to any other team.
5) VC will share with the GS it’s free medieval technology.
6) The treaty can be renegotiated after a period of 20 turns.

Our -counter proposal. Th only change is #2. as far as #3 is concerned - there is no problem there. The techs are indeed coming from Lego - this was confirmed in the chat last night - and our deal with Lego smoothes the way for GS to provide us with contsruction and currency. There will be no no-trade clause, and Lego will publicly state that if need be.

1) The treaty lasts for a period of 20 turns.

2) in that period of 20 turns, VC researches Monarchy and provides it to GS. VC also provides GS with half of the proceeds of the sale of Monarchy - which at this point in time are estimated at 60 gold. (Total proceeds being 120.) After this, VC starts researching a new era tech mutually agreed upon.
3) The GS shares with VC the techs they have researched or have purchased, as soon as the GS acquires the techs, as long as these do not fall under a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) with other teams, in which the GS has agreed not to trade these techs onwards.
4) Out of all the techs given to by the GS in the 20 turn period, Republic, Currency and Construction will be for VC use only- and will not be traded by VC to any other team.
5) VC will share with the GS it’s free medieval technology.
6) The treaty can be renegotiated after a period of 20 turns.

I am also thinking that giving Monotheism to GS is fine. It does not aid their military research. We have made all the deals for it with others. If we did hold it back they would have an early warning that something is up. And it will confirm what a good little trading partner we are. "Yes sir, Mr GS. Here sir. We humbly present you with our tech. Please take it and don't beat us sir. Oh thank-you sir."

[Beta]

Originally posted by argha
Off with their heads, we must stave off this growing depenence upon GS Soon the extra cities will help us, we could become a world power!

As Witt said, blunt, but accurate. I second his comments.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by BetaHound
Their proposal.

1) The treaty lasts for a period of 20 turns.

2) in that period of 20 turns, VC gives the GS 12gpt.
3) The GS shares with VC the techs they have researched or have purchased, as soon as the GS acquires the techs, as long as these do not fall under a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) with other teams, in which the GS has agreed not to trade these techs onwards.
4) Out of all the techs given to by the GS in the 20 turn period, Republic, Currency and Construction will be for VC use only- and will not be traded by VC to any other team.
5) VC will share with the GS it’s free medieval technology.
6) The treaty can be renegotiated after a period of 20 turns.

Our -counter proposal. Th only change is #2. as far as #3 is concerned - there is no problem there. The techs are indeed coming from Lego - this was confirmed in the chat last night - and our deal with Lego smoothes the way for GS to provide us with contsruction and currency. There will be no no-trade clause, and Lego will publicly state that if need be.

1) The treaty lasts for a period of 20 turns.

2) in that period of 20 turns, VC researches Monarchy and provides it to GS. VC also provides GS with half of the proceeds of the sale of Monarchy - which at this point in time are estimated at 60 gold. (Total proceeds being 120.) After this, VC starts researching a new era tech mutually agreed upon.
3) The GS shares with VC the techs they have researched or have purchased, as soon as the GS acquires the techs, as long as these do not fall under a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) with other teams, in which the GS has agreed not to trade these techs onwards.
4) Out of all the techs given to by the GS in the 20 turn period, Republic, Currency and Construction will be for VC use only- and will not be traded by VC to any other team.
5) VC will share with the GS it’s free medieval technology.
6) The treaty can be renegotiated after a period of 20 turns.

I am also thinking that giving Monotheism to GS is fine. It does not aid their military research. We have made all the deals for it with others. If we did hold it back they would have an early warning that something is up. And it will confirm what a good little trading partner we are. "Yes sir, Mr GS. Here sir. We humbly present you with our tech. Please take it and don't beat us sir. Oh thank-you sir."

hmm

I already made a counter proposoal

but that is cool

Jon Miller

[mjmacy]

I think keeping GS unaware of our intentions is worth giving them Monotheism. just like Beta said

"it will confirm what a good little trading partner we are. "Yes sir, Mr GS. Here sir. We humbly present you with our tech. Please take it and don't beat us sir. Oh thank-you sir."
Plus we Could ask for a gold advance to help us fight the terrible war on BOB. Giving them Mono. would be an incentive.

[Beta]

jon et al - are you OK with the following. Another letter will follow tomorrow which will say that the fragile peace has broken again - GoW has delared war once more - and we will soon see if they are bluffing. The need for this short period of peace is that we need to delare a peace traety between us and GoW for one turn in order to turn the city back to them. This will be visible on the save. Then war again. Hehe.

Hello Nathan

Jon has asked that I update you on our political and military situation - such as it is. We don't know how much of this is going to spill over onto the rest of the world, so thought it best that you know what is up.

The public forum is pretty accurate so far. We landed with two immortals, a spearman and a settler. Against GoW's recommendation - and in the face of much rhetoric from both GoW and NeuD we built a city. The logistical reasons are obvious. The land is good. We can see wine which would be had with our next city. And a nearby river for a third city and irrigation. And it is very close to our capitol.

All is fine - except that we are not welcome. I have been negotiating hard for three days now. The first session involved GoW, RP, and NeuD. All three want us off. NeuD is very adamant - almost xenophobic about this. GoW is very aggressive but political. And RP goes along with the other two and tells us we should be worried. But they are clearly on the sidelines. They warn us of what happened to Lux, and that we don't want to tangle with the two 'sharks'. Maybe our decision on Lux has cursed us somewhat. Ah well. This meeting was before we built - and GoW had the impression, as did the others, that we wre leaving.

The next two meetings were with GoW alone. After we had built. The first one was very messy. Lots of posturing, etc. And lots of threats. Ghengis then started exploring all kinds of options. Including some wild tech deals, at one time or the other over a two hour chat, alliances against each country in the world, including you, Lego, and even NeuD, their stalwart ally. Not sure what this was about - other than him trying to figure out where we stand and who our friends are. He may also have been trying to guage if someone would be coming to our assistance. We held up you and Lego as being nations we trusted, and RP as a country we thought we could work with. This may have been a tactical error on my part, and may have been seen as insulting, as I then had another 20 minutes of back and forth to get him and UnorthO and Donegeal et al back on to the issue. Which is basically under what conditions can we stay on Bob. There were some very unreasonable demands, and at times they were speaking for NeuD as well. But then we got down to some reasonable debate, and based on the conversation I had with Ghengis tonight, we may have reached an agreement with them. They sometimes speak for NeuD , or suggest what they think they will be acceptable to NeuD, so it is murky at best as to where NeuD stands. NeuD has been less than receptive to talking until we are off Bob and the city dismantled. What you see in the forum is pretty much what they are like in person.

But we are getting close to an agreement; and the temperature is cooling somewhat. This may cost us some gold in the long term, and us selling our free tech much cheaper than we wanted, but it should get us a foothold, and hopefully avoid a messy, and more importantly, costly war. GoW has horsemen in the area, and they report that NeuD is on the move with swordsmen. We are going to take the precaution of re-inforcing our city in case this does not work out. We appreciate that this may be a case of 'throwing good money after bad', but we also suspect that there is just a bit too much posturing going on. It is clear that GoW does not have iron, and GoW stated that six NeuD swordsmen were coming our way, in a further effort to impress and scare us. So if the peace does not hold, and this gets messy again, we will find out soon enough if they are bluffing.

We are working on both an expansion and an exit strategy for Bob - hoping for the former, but understanding that we may have to resort to the latter. Wish us luck.

On more domestic issues, I understand that we have reached agreement on a new tech trading deal - which is great. I think that our agreement to-date has been beneficial to both of us, and will continue to be so into the future.

I will keep you posted on Operation "Bob's Your Uncle" as it develops, and in any poilitical and military intelligence we glean from this somewhat bizarre experience. We would sincerely appreciate if you could keep us informed if you hear anything from the civs directly involved, as well as RP and Lego.

Good to talk to you again. Trust all is well with you and GS. Cheers! ... Beta.

[HarryH]

hmm

I already made a counter proposoal

but that is cool

Jon, what counter proposal did you make?

Beta, Looks good. It keeps them aprised without revealing too much of the truth.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by BetaHound
jon et al - are you OK with the following. Another letter will follow tomorrow which will say that the fragile peace has broken again - GoW has delared war once more - and we will soon see if they are bluffing. The need for this short period of peace is that we need to delare a peace traety between us and GoW for one turn in order to turn the city back to them. This will be visible on the save. Then war again. Hehe.

Hello Nathan

Jon has asked that I update you on our political and military situation - such as it is. We don't know how much of this is going to spill over onto the rest of the world, so thought it best that you know what is up.

The public forum is pretty accurate so far. We landed with two immortals, a spearman and a settler. Against GoW's recommendation - and in the face of much rhetoric from both GoW and NeuD we built a city. The logistical reasons are obvious. The land is good. We can see wine which would be had with our next city. And a nearby river for a third city and irrigation. And it is very close to our capitol.

All is fine - except that we are not welcome. I have been negotiating hard for three days now. The first session involved GoW, RP, and NeuD. All three want us off. NeuD is very adamant - almost xenophobic about this. GoW is very aggressive but political. And RP goes along with the other two and tells us we should be worried. But they are clearly on the sidelines. They warn us of what happened to Lux, and that we don't want to tangle with the two 'sharks'. Maybe our decision on Lux has cursed us somewhat. Ah well. This meeting was before we built - and GoW had the impression, as did the others, that we wre leaving.

The next two meetings were with GoW alone. After we had built. The first one was very messy. Lots of posturing, etc. And lots of threats. Ghengis then started exploring all kinds of options. Including some wild tech deals, at one time or the other over a two hour chat, alliances against each country in the world, including you, Lego, and even NeuD, their stalwart ally. Not sure what this was about - other than him trying to figure out where we stand and who our friends are. He may also have been trying to guage if someone would be coming to our assistance. We held up you and Lego as being nations we trusted, and RP as a country we thought we could work with. This may have been a tactical error on my part, and may have been seen as insulting, as I then had another 20 minutes of back and forth to get him and UnorthO and Donegeal et al back on to the issue. Which is basically under what conditions can we stay on Bob. There were some very unreasonable demands, and at times they were speaking for NeuD as well. But then we got down to some reasonable debate, and based on the conversation I had with Ghengis tonight, we may have reached an agreement with them. They sometimes speak for NeuD , or suggest what they think they will be acceptable to NeuD, so it is murky at best as to where NeuD stands. NeuD has been less than receptive to talking until we are off Bob and the city dismantled. What you see in the forum is pretty much what they are like in person.

But we are getting close to an agreement; and the temperature is cooling somewhat. This may cost us some gold in the long term, and us selling our free tech much cheaper than we wanted, but it should get us a foothold, and hopefully avoid a messy, and more importantly, costly war. GoW has horsemen in the area, and they report that NeuD is on the move with swordsmen. We are going to take the precaution of re-inforcing our city in case this does not work out. We appreciate that this may be a case of 'throwing good money after bad', but we also suspect that there is just a bit too much posturing going on. It is clear that GoW does not have iron, and GoW stated that six NeuD swordsmen were coming our way, in a further effort to impress and scare us. So if the peace does not hold, and this gets messy again, we will find out soon enough if they are bluffing.

We are working on both an expansion and an exit strategy for Bob - hoping for the former, but understanding that we may have to resort to the latter. Wish us luck.

On more domestic issues, I understand that we have reached agreement on a new tech trading deal - which is great. I think that our agreement to-date has been beneficial to both of us, and will continue to be so into the future.

I will keep you posted on Operation "Bob's Your Uncle" as it develops, and in any poilitical and military intelligence we glean from this somewhat bizarre experience. We would sincerely appreciate if you could keep us informed if you hear anything from the civs directly involved, as well as RP and Lego.

Good to talk to you again. Trust all is well with you and GS. Cheers! ... Beta.

I don't like

I will come up with an alternate

see how you liek it

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

edited (to be sent by Beta)

Originally posted by BetaHound
jon et al - are you OK with the following. Another letter will follow tomorrow which will say that the fragile peace has broken again - GoW has delared war once more - and we will soon see if they are bluffing. The need for this short period of peace is that we need to delare a peace traety between us and GoW for one turn in order to turn the city back to them. This will be visible on the save. Then war again. Hehe.

Hello (not nathan, he is no longer as involved) Nathan

Jon has asked that I update you on our political and military situation - such as it is. We don't know how much of this is going to spill over onto the rest of the world, so thought it best that you know what is up.

The public forum is pretty accurate so far. We landed with two immortals, a spearman and a settler. Against GoW's recommendation - and in the face of much rhetoric from both GoW and NeuD we built a city. The logistical reasons are obvious. The land is good. We can see wine which would be had with our next city. And a nearby river for a third city and irrigation. And it is very close to our capitol.

(good)

All is fine - except that we are not welcome. I have been negotiating hard for three days now. The first session involved GoW, RP, and NeuD. All three want us off. NeuD is very adamant - almost xenophobic about this. GoW is very aggressive but political. And RP encourages the other twos agressive nature. They warn us of what happened to Lux, and that we don't want to tangle with the two 'sharks'. Maybe our decision on Lux has cursed us somewhat. Ah well. This meeting was before we built - and GoW had the impression, as did the others, that we wre leaving.

(good)

The next two meetings were with GoW alone. After we had built. The first one was very messy. Lots of posturing, etc. And lots of threats. Ghengis then started exploring all kinds of options. Including some wild tech deals, at one time or the other over a two hour chat, alliances against each country in the world, including you, Lego, and even NeuD, their stalwart ally. Not sure what this was about - other than him trying to figure out where we stand and who our friends are. He may also have been trying to guage if someone would be coming to our assistance. We held up you and Lego as being nations we trusted, and RP as a country we thought we could work with. This may have been a tactical error on my part, and may have been seen as insulting, as I then had another 20 minutes of back and forth to get him and UnorthO and Donegeal et al back on to the issue. Which is basically under what conditions can we stay on Bob. There were some very unreasonable demands, and at times they were speaking for NeuD as well. But then we got down to some reasonable debate, and based on the conversation I had with Ghengis tonight, we may have reached an agreement with them. They sometimes speak for NeuD , or suggest what they think they will be acceptable to NeuD, so it is murky at best as to where NeuD stands. NeuD has been less than receptive to talking until we are off Bob and the city dismantled. What you see in the forum is pretty much what they are like in person.

(bad, we don't want them even knowing of the possibililty we might be attacking them, they are already getting nervous (about war to their north))

But we are getting close to an agreement; and the temperature is cooling somewhat. This may cost us some gold in the long term, and us selling our free tech much cheaper than we wanted, but it should get us a foothold, and hopefully avoid a messy, and more importantly, costly war. GoW has horsemen in the area, and they report that NeuD is on the move with swordsmen. We are going to take the precaution of re-inforcing our city in case this does not work out. We appreciate that this may be a case of 'throwing good money after bad', but we also suspect that there is just a bit too much posturing going on. It is clear that GoW does not have iron, and GoW stated that six NeuD swordsmen were coming our way, in a further effort to impress and scare us. So if the peace does not hold, and this gets messy again, we will find out soon enough if they are bluffing.

(good)

We are working on both an expansion and an exit strategy for Bob - hoping for the former, but understanding that we may have to resort to the latter. Wish us luck.

(good)

On more domestic issues, I understand that we have reached agreement on a new tech trading deal - which is great. I think that our agreement to-date has been beneficial to both of us, and will continue to be so into the future.

(good)

I will keep you posted on Operation "Bob's Your Uncle" as it develops, and in any poilitical and military intelligence we glean from this somewhat bizarre experience. We would sincerely appreciate if you could keep us informed if you hear anything from the civs directly involved, as well as RP and Lego.

(not as good, include as you see fit)

Good to talk to you again. Trust all is well with you and GS. Cheers! ... Beta.

check out my comments, I basically just want one paragraph gone

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

basically, GS has always had its jumpy players

we don't want them to have anything to jump at

especially not the comment that GoW talked about allying with us against them

Jon Miller

[Beta]

Letter revised as per jon's suggestions and sent to zeit.

Hello zeit

Jon has asked that I update you on our political and military situation - such as it is. We don't know how much of this is going to spill over onto the rest of the world, so thought it best that you know what is up.

The public forum is pretty accurate so far if you can read through the clutter. We landed with two immortals, a spearman and a settler. Against GoW's recommendation - and in the face of much rhetoric from both GoW and NeuD we built a city. The logistical reasons are obvious. The land is good. We can see wine which would be had with our next city. And a nearby river for a third city and irrigation. And it is very close to our capitol.

All is fine - except that we are clearly not welcome. I have been negotiating hard for three days now. The first session involved GoW, RP, and NeuD. All three wanted us off. NeuD is very adamant - almost xenophobic about this. GoW is very aggressive but political. And RP goes along with the other two and tells us we should be worried. But they are clearly on the sidelines. They warn us of what happened to Lux, and that we don't want to tangle with the two 'sharks'. Maybe our decision on Lux has cursed us somewhat. Ah well. This meeting was before we built - and GoW had the impression, as did the others, that we wre leaving.

The next two meetings were with GoW alone. After we had built. The first one was very messy. Lots of posturing, etc. And lots of threats. It took me 20 minutes of back and forth to get him and UnorthO and Donegeal et al back on to the issue. Which is basically under what conditions can we stay on Bob. First it was a flat out 'no'. Then, there were some very unreasonable demands. But then we got down to some reasonable debate, and based on the conversation I had with Ghengis tonight, we may have reached an agreement with them. They sometimes speak for NeuD , or suggest what they think they will be acceptable to NeuD, so it is murky at best as to where NeuD stands. NeuD has been less than receptive to talking until we are off Bob and the city dismantled. What you see in the forum is pretty much what they are like in person.

But we are getting close to an agreement; and the temperatures are cooling somewhat. This may cost us some gold in the long term, and us selling our free tech much cheaper than we wanted, but it should get us a foothold, and hopefully avoid a messy, and more importantly, costly war. GoW has horsemen in the area, and they report that NeuD is on the move with swordsmen. We are going to take the precaution of re-inforcing our city on Bob in case this does not work out. We appreciate that this may be a case of 'throwing good money after bad', but we also suspect that there is just a bit too much posturing going on. It is clear that GoW does not have iron, and GoW stated that six NeuD swordsmen were coming our way, in a further effort to impress and scare us. So if the peace does not hold, and this gets messy again, we will find out soon enough if they are bluffing.

We are working on both an expansion and an exit strategy for Bob - hoping for the former, but understanding that we may have to resort to the latter. Wish us luck.

On more domestic issues, I understand that we are reaching agreement on a new tech trading deal - which is great. I think that our agreement to-date has been beneficial to both of us, and will continue to be so into the future.

I will keep you posted on Operation "Bob's Your Uncle" as it develops, and in any poilitical and military intelligence we glean from this somewhat bizarre experience. We would sincerely appreciate if you could keep us informed if you hear anything from the civs directly involved, as well as RP and Lego.

Good to talk to you. Trust all is well with you and the leaders and citizens of GS. Cheers! ... Beta.

[mjmacy]

Could we ask about horses? we say : we would even build the road south ourselves. we Need the horses to counter ND and GOW.

[Jon Miller]

I already asked

they don't have any horses to trade us

don't know if that means they have horses period

just means they don't have any to trade us

Jon Miller