GS FA thread 1

[Beta]

Originally posted by Wittlich
Well, worse case scenerio - At least we have a settler on at least one of our galleys!

Two actually. And in a pinch I could get two more off in two turns.

But I think their happiness problem is genuine. However, no mention of compensation for us leaving early.

[HarryH]

The happiness problem surprises me. It was over 20 turns ago that war was declared (our golden age ended a few turns ago). I don't think the happiness benefit lasts this long.

[Rhothaerill]

I believe it works like war weariness in reverse. It automatically jumps your happiness when attacked, but it takes awhile for that to wear away. I don't know all the particulars, and maybe they were just messing with us, but Dissidentville is theirs now anyway.

[Beta]

To nbarclay today. I will continue to bug them for the money.

Hello Nathan. How's things?

Enjoy Dissidentville. Be kind to the folks there. I am posting a People's History in SPIN shortly.

As to the turn - we cashed in more Immortals last turn. I have moved ALL units to the hill outside Wittlich City where you can view them. There are no units left in any of the cities. We are still on a fast track to exodus.

Any response on a monetary incentive to us clearing out quicker? Cash flow is getting poor.

Have a good one ... Beta.

[Beta]

And once again:

Hi Nathan.

We are getting down to the final stages of planning at our end. And we need two answers from GS.

First - The Voice. Do you want to capture it, or do you want us to abandon it?

The plan currently in the works would see us gift you Miller Town before something is done with The Voice. (Miller Town has culture built up, and will prevent a palace jump, AFAIK). The Voice is either captured or abandoned. The capitol jumps to Legos Minor.

On the next turn after that - we will move our units into one of the three remaining cities - and gift it to you. We would then gift the other two cities a few turns after that. We are thinking of minimizing the cash flow loss we are currently experiencing.

One of the issues here, is that if you take The Voice - you will have to declare war. Does this cause you problems. If we abandon the Voice - we can do this all through peaceful means. It is up to you.

Also - we will have to wait one turn to declare peace again.

And the second - any thoughts yet on our proposal of an early exodus in exchange for a nominal cash flow allowance to help us through the resettlement period. An early wind-up will require cashing in more military units than planned - hence our proposal. As we have yet to put a number on the table yet - how about we suggest 6 gpt for 20 turns. That is 120 gold in exchange for us clearing out some 8-10 turns earlier.

Please let us know. We have some 'disbanding' decisions to make next turn.

Many thanks ... Beta.

[Beta]

By my count - GS agreed to the treaty in 250BC. Now, 190BC is 3 turns later. Next turn will be 4. Theoretically that gives us 14 turns to play with and still meet the terms of our agreement. As long as we do not exceed the Vox population at time of signing - which I will need to verify. That is a long time - and supports Harry's approach to the jump - as we can maintain cities on Estonia for awhile. Let's wait and see what GS say.

Also - please note that I have re-constructed the Vox-GS peace treaty from the two threads which had pieces of it. It is in the Thread of everything - under Foreign Affairs, GS, Treaties.

[Beta]

nye conatcted me this morning and asked foir the pm's I had sent nbarclay. Here is the response. Looks like we may have toi come up with a plan where they take the Voice.

And no world map trading. That is prohibited by the deal with Lego. And if we do get 120 gold, I suggest no loan. Yes - we lost the war, and yes they were magnanimous regarding the treaty, but they are getting our cities 8-10 turns early. That has got to be worth something.

Anyways - here is the reply:

RE: Re: Exodus
Hi again

Unfortunately, a chat for me this evening will be difficult. I may be able to squeeze in tonight around 8.30 my time (Mountain). If you are back on this afternoon, let me know.

Just so you know. The 120 gold idea is meeting some success. We may want to make it a loan though, or perhaps a trade for WM after your move or something.

re the Voice. I'm not positive, but I think we would like to capture it. I will let you know soonest we have a final decision.

Could you tell me when you are expecting Engineering?

nye

[Beta]

nye and I had a good chat last night - and after some back and forth, hammered out the following. The transfer will take place 4 and 5 turns from now. Which is what we planned.

And we got 60 gold - lump sum on the move. And no world map trade.

Here is the pertinent part of the chat:

5 Points
.notyoueither. 1. Vox 126. vox gifts all cities on Stormia (Estonia) to GS, save the Voice, as well as Engineering. Accepted.
.notyoueither. 2. GS 127. GS accepts cities and tech. Declares war. occupies The Voice. GS offers peace and Miller Town back, accepted.
.notyoueither. 3. Vox 127. Accepts peace and Miller Town. Moves all forces into Miller Town. Offers Miller Town, unnaccepted.
.notyoueither. 4. GS 127. GS offers 60 gold and accepts.
.notyoueither. 5. Vox accepts 60 gold for Miller Town and all forces *blip* to their new capital. The peace is final.
.Beta. Its a wrap.
.notyoueither. unless you want your troops gone one turn sooner, in which case offer miller town accepted
.notyoueither. up to you
.Beta. If that works - we will do it.
.notyoueither. it would.
__________________

[Beta]

Harry's 7 point plan proposed to GS?

Re: 5 Points
Alternate proposal - 7 Points - By HarryH.

Hi nye - Harry has come up with an alternate proposal and his logic is explained at the end. Would this be acceptable?

quote:
I propose this:

1. Vox 126. Vox gifts Miller Town and Engineering to GS, accepted. Vox moves all units adjacent to Harry's Hideout.

2. GS 127. GS accepts Miller Town and tech. Declares war. Occupies The Voice. (Voxian capital moves to new city on Legos Minor.) GS offers peace and the gold received from the Vox treasury when Voice was conquered, accepted.

3. Vox 127. Accepts peace. Moves all units next to HH into the city. Vox gifts HH to GS, accepted.

4. GS 128. GS accepts HH. (All Vox units in HH jump to new capital).

5. Vox 130. Vox trades Beta-by-the-Sea and Wittlich City to GS, unaccepted.

6. GS 131. GS adds 60 gold to the trade and accepts.

7. Vox 131. Vox accepts trade. The peace is final.

In the GS 5 point plan plan we have only the city on Legos Minor at the start of each turn from 127 to 131 for a total of 5 city-turns. With my plan we start 127 with 4 cities and the other turns with 3 for a total of 16 city-turns. That is a difference of 44 gold just in unit maintenance costs (plus commerce, wealth, and tax collectors). GS still gets the Voice (with its granary and food tiles) and Miller Town just as quickly. With HH they will have a road network from Elipolis to Voice. Our units arrive in Lego Minor on the same turn in both plans. If necessary, we can move steps 5-7 up a turn.


Let me know. Thanks! Beta.


quote:

notyoueither wrote on 07-07-2003 22:32:
1. Vox 126. vox gifts all cities on Stormia (Estonia) to GS, save the Voice, as well as Engineering. Accepted.
2. GS 127. GS accepts cities and tech. Declares war. occupies The Voice. GS offers peace and Miller Town back, accepted.
3. Vox 127. Accepts peace and Miller Town. Moves all forces into Miller Town. Offers Miller Town, unnaccepted.
4. GS 127. GS offers 60 gold and accepts.
5. Vox accepts 60 gold for Miller Town and all forces *blip* to their new capital. The peace is final.
Its a wrap.
unless you want your troops gone one turn sooner, in which case offer miller town accepted
up to you
If that works - we will do it.
it would.

[Beta]

AS indicated in the moves thread - I chatted with nye tonight - and they do not want to move from the 5 point plan. It has been approved from their end - and they feel the cash flow issue should be manageable from our end using revolt(s).

So - I did not want to push the issue this close to the actual jump - in fact we are getting out with more pop than I think the treaty allows - but GS has not said boo yet. So I am staying quiet as well. Let's take our 60 gold and scoot.

I will send the 5 point plan back to GS approved.

If we get stabbed in the back - well such is love and war.

Sorry I could not sell it to them Harry. nye was not buying the cash flow issue - as they have a solution for us - using revolts.

[Beta]

Final treaty. btw - we did get the clause in giving us back any gold which is captured in the taking of the Voice.

Final Peace - the 5 points.

1. Vox 126. Vox gifts all cities on Stormia (Estonia) to GS, save the Voice, as well as Engineering. Accepted. All cities include Wittlich City, Miller Town, Beta-by-the-Sea, and Harry's Hideout.

2. GS 127. GS accepts cities and tech. Declares war, occupies The Voice. GS offers peace, Miller Town and any gold captured from the Voice back, accepted.

3. Vox 127. Vox accepts peace and Miller Town. Moves all forces into Miller Town. Offers Miller Town, unnaccepted.

4. GS 128. GS offers 60 gold and accepts.

5. Vox 128. Vox accepts 60 gold for Miller Town and all forces *blip* to their new capital. The peace is final.

Ratified by Gathering Storm

Ratified by Vox Controli


With the understanding that we could and probably will go a turn earlier by accepting the Miller Town transfer.

[Rhothaerill]

At least they agreed with giving us our gold back. That's something. I definitely think we should *blip* the units that turn earlier. The sooner we get our forces to Legos Minor the sooner we can set up our new cities and get our unit support back to normal. Which raises a question...I don't remember offhand but was it proposed that we go to Republic or to Monarchy? If we go to Republic then we'll have to pay unit support for all 30 units (38 including the settlers though they'll go away). That's a bad idea with no roads up. If we go for Monarchy then we'll get roughly 18 supported units from the nine cities, but we will still be paying for 12 of them. We'll need to get some roads up real quick with those workers to be able to support the army we have now....unless we join some of the workers to cities right off the bat. EDIT: Just saw Harry's post and the recommendation for monarchy. I second that with the caveat of building roads quickly (good thing we're industrious ).

[Beta]

To and from notyoueither of GS:


RE: update

Oh yeah! Seeing others impale themselves is much better having done it ourselves. No?

Cities accepted. Peace, Miller Town and 10 gold back to you. My that's quite a bank roll you've built up, glad the bad old days are done.

Good luck on LM. We look forward to normalised relations with the Voice. What do they say? Oh yes, absense makes the heart grow fonder.

Cheers back atcha

ps. I think that's my quota of smilies for a week.


quote:


Greetings nye!

We played turn 126. All cities at size 1. 4 cities gifted to you. Engineering sent as well. Over to you.

And it is interesting to watch this war from the sidelines. Little less intense than last time around.

Cheers ..Beta.

[Beta]

Had to go looking for the GS FA thread. Received this from Velocyrix. Interesting.

MUCH to discuss!
Hey man! Couldn't resist writing, cos do we have TONS of stuff to talk about!!!

-Chris

I responded "Let's talk. What's up?"

Guess we shall see.

[Beta]

Vel's PM. No harm in listening. I will tell him that we have a fair degree of autonomy under the terms of our agreement.

Re: PM Box now receiving
Hey bud, and no sweat!

So...I'll cut right to the chase...I'd like to talk to you about a re-strengthening of Vox, but before we get to particulars, I need some sense of how much freedom to act you have alone.

I do not know the particulars of your agreement with Lego....if you have to clear every little thing with them before the fact, or if you can act on your own and ask for forgiveness or permission later.

If it's the latter, then we can play 'let's make a deal'

-=Vel=-